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Thread: New Workshop - Need lots of good advice

  1. #16
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    The circuit breaker boxes are already in the workshop area, but probably 5' in the air. The present air handlers are all built way up in the air by code (poor AC guys).

    I'm going for solar power with battery backup, so I'm not going for a generator (although, I already have one on my present house.)

    For those who don't live in hurricane country, sump pumps aren't helpful here. You either get no water in, or it's the big one and waves are crashing into / through your house. Not much middle ground. And if the storm goes a little south of us, Tampa Bay is a disaster, and I'm intact. A little North of us, it's the opposite. Location, location, location (of any storms that it). I don't want to jinx myself, but fortunately Tampa has been spared the big one over the last 100 years.

    And if we do get hit, flood insurance will pay for everything in the workshop, and won't cover the house anyway. That would be the homeowner's insurance.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome Sidley View Post
    instead of upstairs storage how about downstairs and have your machines higher? you could run the dust collection duct under also
    I've thought a lot about that. It would be doable, but would involve carrying lumber and machines up stairs, which I'm not thrilled at.

    It also would eliminate the sound buffer of a storage floor to the main house.

    Plus, I'm not sure what it takes to make a floor to withstand the beating of a storm surge. Probably need to be cement, and that means no access in it.
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 08-21-2017 at 9:11 AM.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    What is an "H hoist'. do you mean a bridge crane? A bridge crane is going to need at least two-three feet above the hook. Have you considered a Jib crane in one corner? that 21' will mean a very deep bridge beam. probably well over 12-16" alone for 2 ton.
    Look on ebay and you can buy a old bridge with endtrucks for less then materiel cost. Best to buy a complete setup and build the shop around the footprint.
    Bill D.

    oldcarguy had a nice series about his but it was on photobucket

    http://www.harringtonhoists.com/tech_support/edocs/EDOC%200367%20rev02.pdf


    An H-hoist or x-y hoist (the term is new to me, but that's what I see it called. Please someone correct me if I have the wrong term.) is a hoist that rides between two long horizontal beams. That way it can move over the entirety of the workshop area. Lighter duty ones are often used to lift patients in and out of beds.

    Presently I use two hoists, one over my table saw that I use to raise/lower my large/heavy crosscut jig, and another I use to lift machinery onto mobile bases, etc... Having a single one would be so much easier and versatile (and I'm sure WAY more expensive than the Harbor Freight ones I'm using now).

    Someone had one either on here, or another site that he actually could go out on a beam on his barn workshop and lift things out of the bed of a pickup truck into his workshop.

    Here's a diagram of what a H-Hoist looks like:
    H-Hoist Diagram.jpg
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 08-21-2017 at 11:44 AM.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  4. #19
    I'm thinking, why not build a floor system up so you would have 9' ceilings in the upper level of the shop? Or would 7 or 8' not make enough difference when you get a big storm?

  5. #20
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    We're already at 8' elevation. That means the main house is at 25' elevation. To reach the living area would take the storm surge from a massive Cat 5 storm, with bad timing for high tide and bad location forcing the storm surge towards the house.. Possible, but a total worst case scenario.

    And I don't think it would be possible to raise the workshop floor in a way that would survive that surge. So I'm not trying to do the barely possible - which would still be destroyed in a 100 year storm. My present house has been through 5 hurricanes - though no direct hits. It has survived intact through hurricane strength winds, but not serious storm surge. I'm not being cavalier about the storms. I truly understand what it is to live through them. And no, I'm not one of those idiots that sticks around to have a hurricane party. We leave in a safe direction to a safe location.

    I am going to utilize the 17 foot height for two spaces - a storage space, and a workshop space. And the difficulty of moving heavy machinery and lumber to the upper space will probably mean that the upper level will be storage, and the lower level will be the workshop.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  6. #21
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    That is what has been called a bridge crane for years and years. the diagram even labels the bridge beam portion! the end trucks can be overrunning or underhung. the bridge can be single or double beam and the hoist trolley can be top running or underslung. All the options that add more height under the hook cost more. And you can run more then one bridge on the same rails.
    A proper one is not really attached to the building structure since it needs to be accurately leveled and maybe re-levled if the foundation moves.
    Bill D.

    http://www.spanco.com/products/works...SAAEgJu__D_BwE
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 08-22-2017 at 12:40 AM.

  7. #22
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    Thanks, Bill. I was wondering why they've been difficult to search for with google. Haven't seen any versions supported on vertical columns like the one you showed.

    I'll have the architect look at these and determine what they think is the best mounting approach. I'd hate to think that the foundation can move, tied into 60 vertical piles, but I guess anything is possible.
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 08-22-2017 at 6:39 AM.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  8. #23
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    I'm thinking more about putting in a floor 1 foot or so above the cement floor to place the dust collection ducts. Are you forced to have all your runs at roughly 90 degree angles under the floor to allow for floor joists? Do you allow for access panels for the floor to get at ducts?

    If using overhead runs for the ducts instead, how does that work in real life with ducts hanging downwards to equipment? Do you bump into them, do they get in the way of carrying things?
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    ...I have a 5HP Oneida cyclone. I definitely want to make a small "soundproofed" closet for that and for my air compressor (which actually bothers me more. Something about its noise is more obnoxious to me.)
    I built such a closet for my 5-hp ClearVue cyclone - it's amazing, from painfully loud to being able to hear a whisper outside the closet. Mine is 4'x8' to accommodate both the cyclone and the big air compressor. I used staggered stud walls with insulation woven between, 1/2" ply inside and out. I built a sound-baffled plywood duct to return the filtered air to the shop. Double steel doors open into another room in the shop away from the wood stuff.

    My ceilings are 9' which is the absolute minimum, in my opinion. 10' or 10.5' would be a lot better. Be sure to think about hanging lights and such.

    When I grew up along the Monongahela river in PA flooding was a springtime event from the snow melt. The few times the water got high enough to get to the first floor of the house we carried the furniture and all to the upper floors. My dad pulled out the big wooded drawers in the kitchen and put the stove, fridge, etc up a bit just in case. The highest the water ever got was about 12" from the basement floor joists. Maybe have some steel stands ready and a way to lift machines a few feet? And a strong concrete surge wall outside!

    JKJ

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    I'm thinking more about putting in a floor 1 foot or so above the cement floor to place the dust collection ducts. Are you forced to have all your runs at roughly 90 degree angles under the floor to allow for floor joists? Do you allow for access panels for the floor to get at ducts?

    If using overhead runs for the ducts instead, how does that work in real life with ducts hanging downwards to equipment? Do you bump into them, do they get in the way of carrying things?
    Underfloor can be a very nice way of running utilities and DC in a shop if you have the ability to do so. In your case, if you put joists directly on the slab, it will be more difficult to run DC at other than with the joists or perpendicular to them, although you can certainly engineer diagonal troughs with covers as you design the framing. And that makes for easy access if you have a clog, etc. Having the joists raised up off the slab would also allow more efficient diagonal runs, but you'd want the floor screwed down so that you can open things up if there's an issue.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #26
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    I've been told that electricity is a no-go under the floor, but the ducting can be done.

    Diagonal trusses would clearly make for a better DC layout, but might be more trouble than it's worth. I'm just a one man operation, so the 5HP Oneida is overkill. I can probably tolerate a little inefficiency in its design - up to a point.

    What kind of material should I have used for the floor joists, so that they aren't ruined if they get wet (I sure hope not)?
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  12. #27
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    You need to use PT since the joists will presumably be in contact with the slab.

    BTW, to clarify what I was speaking about, if you plan your duct routing before you frame the floor, you can literally build in troughs for your DC duct work at angles appropriate for the job. It requires a little more material, but sure does make it easy to fix any issues later since you only have to remove the foot or so wide piece of deck that's covering the trough.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #28
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    How big do you make the floor pieces that are screwed onto the joists. You don't use full size plywood pieces screwed to the joists do you?
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  14. #29
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    You use full size sheets except over the troughs...so the majority of the floor is done "normally". You're just making things easy by having removable panels just over the duct work. Some folks actually use steel for that so they don't have to worry as much about supporting the joint between pieces, but 3/4" underlayment plywood (not OSB) is pretty strong stuff..
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #30
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    Next question, and I didn't want to hijack the other poster's thread asking about insulating his garage.

    Should I put up drywall, or some other panels on the cinder block walls, or should I leave them as it? My present garage shop just has the cinder block walls, but significant insulation in the ceiling.

    I know insulation is relatively cheap, and much easier to install at this point, but does it really save money in keeping in the cool air vs a cinderblock wall? Keeping in the heat in winter isn't much of a concern here, it's just keeping the space cool with split AC units.

    Are there better materials to use for the walls instead of sheetrock for a shop? In any case, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get my money out of my two hammer drills. I wonder if there is a Hilti in my future. Does it ultimately save money not having to use metal conduit and just using Romex inside of walls to outlet boxes?
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 08-23-2017 at 7:56 AM.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

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