Contributor
It's too expensive for them to sharpen the tips in their shop or even clock the screw? That explains everything about why these are so expensive. That and the fact they are basically a hobby / boutique manufacturer. I'd rather spend the money on something more essential than a pair of seldom used dividers. By the way, is anyone listing for the bamboo french curves or the similarly expensive holdfast.
Contributor
It really helps very little if the business is not run to be successful. I suppose they will find a few people willing to pay their prices, but they might be more successful if they made products that many people want and can afford.Originally Posted by George Wall
Mike
[As an example, if you Google search on "holdfast tool" you'll find many for under $50, some for way under $50. Here's a place that hand makes them and sells two for $38 ($19 a piece). Now, maybe someone wants a super finished holdfast, or wants an expensive one to brag about, but the majority of people will attempt to maximize their "gain" for the minimum price.
I doubt if there are enough people who want a set of super premium dividers to make a successful business.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 08-29-2017 at 11:28 AM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Simon, I don't disagree with what you're saying here. But I would like to point out that for the woodworking tool market, once we get into planes for example, one can purchase a $250 Veritas plane that has already been sharpened, finished and fettled to perfection - a plane is relatively complex compared to dividers, and at around $190, I would think they could afford to finish the tool for the user. Just my two cents - initially I though Crucible dividers, like any other high priced tool come perfectly finished, and in my mind could see why someone might want to pay that much for them....now I'm not so sure.
I did just read their blog, and it doesn't sound very convincing. It would be like Lie Nielsen shipping a blade ground at close to 90 degrees and saying different angles work for different people, so do what you want with it.
Member
The Crucibles are too rich for my blood. The doghouse in the yard isn't big enough for both me and my mutt. But I don't begrudge anyone that wants to buy them.
Decades from now the grandkids will look at it and wonder why grandpa liked them so much. Then someone else will get to pick them up for a few bucks at a garage sale, or whatever they have 50-60 years from now.
The wing type Pexto dividers I use were my grandfathers and came to me brown all over. I've left them that way.
-Tom
Member
As I see it, the principals are pursuing a "following" strategy. That is they create a following under the LAP flagship and the followers will buy tools associated with the LAP. They dont need to appeal to the general consumers most of whom cant afford or wont be willing to pay for a boutique item. Look, it is time and money to create and maintain the following. It costs money to write blogs, make responses, etc. As always, some will succeed and some will fail in a flash. The business world has always been like that.
This isnt a new business strategy but has been made more potent and effective because of the invention of social media. If the social media were shut down tomorrow, most businesses modeled after this strategy would fold in no time because they could not reach their targeted buyers or maintain the following.
Not too long ago on Paul Sellers' site, people talked about Sellers endorsing (like sports stars) products or creating his own brand of products. No other online teachers have a following close to Sellers these days (even though he had a late start) and imagine his success if he launched a tool. There are no signs he will but if he did, he could sell more snake oil as a finishing product than anyone could dream about. Oil made in the uk too, not imported.
The loyal followers feel being part of the family and feel the obligations to render their support. Social media have totally changed a lot of things including businesses.
Simon
Contributor
Maybe. I really doubt if the principles of economics have been suspended because of social media. In fashion, we see people buy a "name" in order to show that they are hip or rich enough to buy it, but I kind of doubt if that strategy applies to tools.
And even if it did, we see the results when the hip people move to a new "name" fashion.
Overall, the marketplace is based on the idea that the buyer feels s/he is getting the best value for their money. For fashion items, that feeling is very transient.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
[OP]
Contributor
IMO, whether it's ok, foolish or whatever to sell the Crucible dividers at that price is ultimately up to the people who buy 'em. Or don't. It's too rich for my blood, but so are Woodpeckers, Bridge City and any other number of toolmakers.
Putting it in perspective though, there are a TON of people on this board (including me) who salivate at every new offering from LV. Yet our friend Steve Newman regularly reminds us that he's doing good work with old tools that he bought cheaply and rehabbed. To Steve, it might seem just as foolish to pay $400 for LV's new combo plane as it does to me to pay $200 for dividers.
Likewise, for me, a $5000 Euro slider is not needed. But a WHOLE LOT of folks on SMC have them and just love them. Ditto with Festool. And while I'm certain I'd love them too, it's not something I personally need/want.
So I guess that's a long winded way to say that I agree it's up to the buyer.
Fred
Member
Frederick, you make a good point, basically YMMV. But what I'd like to point out is that for all of your examples, yes, they are the expensive options, and do the same work cheaper tools do, BUT the difference is that their manufacturers all hold themselves to a very high standard, providing the customer with a tool that works perfectly out of the box/better than their competitors/to a higher degree of accuracy or precision.
That being said, different strokes for different folks, and I admit, those dividers look very cool, for what it's worth.
Member
Simon, you make an excellent point. Mike, I think you're wrong. As Simon has pointed out, the business model they have could work very well. Schwarz is a hardworking person and has captured the imagination of many. I don't feel the need to purchase the dividers, but I'm sure plenty of people well. The target market seems to be those who have the money spare, perhaps to have as a special gift or for those who will prioritise them as a purchase. For small makers, this is the only market.
I just think it is worth pointing out, in terms of practical application the crucible dividers will not offer any improvement over any other appropriate quality divider. Thankfully, people are free to choose how they spend their money.
Contributor
My eBay find arrived yesterday. They are gorgeous, very tight, and extremely sharp! (Gloat)
Contributor
Fredrick, Crucible should send you a pair for free. Would cost them a fortune to get the advertising they'll get from you starting this thread, haha!
Jim
Member
It cuts both ways. Some sitting on the fence might be put off by the idea that it is not an out of the box tool. Of course, Fred's thread may have brought this product to the notice of some who never knew about it.
Simon
Member
I agree these are very nice pairs of dividers and boutique dividers should be sold with their tips sharp. But look at what you have done. Everyone will now be bidding up any future pairs of dividers like yours!
Simon
Contributor
I literally said that with all the buzz about dividers, I need to get a good set before folks start bidding them up. Boom. One step ahead.I agree these are very nice pairs of dividers and boutique dividers should be sold with their tips sharp. But look at what you have done. Everyone will now be bidding up any future pairs of dividers like yours!
Simon
Contributor
To address a couple of comments, Crucible makes it very clear on their ordering page that you need to sharpen the dividers, and have included a video and text instructions. From the video, it would take most folks only a minute or two, and then they're probably done sharpening them for at least a couple of years. They probably figure that the people willing to pay that money for a divider would also be the same folks that would be willing to spend a couple of minutes honing the points.
The other adjustment is the tension or tightness. You don't need to (or shouldn't) peen anything. Instead, you take the included bit and adjust the tightness to your liking. That step is optional in the event that you find them tight enough as shipped. Either way, it's probably less than a minute to adjust. And you can later readjust in case you decide you like them more or less tight.
Personally, they are too rich for my blood. But that could be said of Festool as well ($300 for a cordless drill? Seriously?). Or any other vendor of premium products. Also, I do believe their first release of the dividers cost quite a bit less than the current price. They sold out of them within a day, and they later indicated in their blog that they had some manufacturing issues that were going to result in their needing to bump the price by quite a bit.
Crucible is targeting a small, niche market. As for the price, not everyone will want their products, and they are perfectly OK with that. Again, the same could be said of a number of the smaller, niche businesses that cater to this hobby. As Simon noted, it's a value judgment we all need to make; there is no right or wrong answer here.
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