Crucible dividers?

[Simon MacGowen]

Schwarz is a hardworking person and has captured the imagination of many. Thankfully, people are free to choose how they spend their money.

Chris and Paul both have a huge following but they pursued differently in how they captured their followers.

Chris - Carefully cultivates relationships over a long period of time (since PW days of course) with players in the field (major hand tool makers, writers, other small artisans, etc.) locally and overseas. His connections in today's woodworking (hand tool) world are second to none. He does not side with Lie-Nielsen or Veritas, both are friendly to him. He supports all others in the field whenever he can. He invests in building relationships. He makes it a point that he supports local or US businesses; he could have saved a lot by having his books printed in China which is pretty much the largest printing factory in the world. He makes an effort to nurture and expand his network, which directly or indirectly grows his following as those players have their own supporters.

Paul - Confident and a true woodworker by all definitions, has tasted success during his time in the US. Who else, a foreigner, do you know who has done furniture work for the White House? In this respect, he is in the class of Sam Maloof, except Sam an American. He is more like Norm Abram, a born teacher and presenter, drawing viewers to him with little effort. He works hard to make woodworking by hand look easy, but often showing his human side that people can relate to: Oops...he says as he makes a mistake and then goes on to fix it, right in front of your eyes. He planes against the grain and then says so as he turns the stock around, making him just like one of us. How can you not follow an accomplished woodworker who makes you feel you can do what he does? Unlike Chris, he doesn't mingle with other woodworkers or tool makers in the field. When did you ever see or hear him mention another woodworker by name...unless when he was to point out a technical mistake that he wanted corrected?

Different approaches but same objective: To create, expand and maintain an audience that will stick around. Social media have made both of their approaches easier to succeed.

Simon

[Bill Houghton]

Ted,

As I would have said back in the '60s..."Right on Dude". Good tools will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of bad tools, or something like that. I believe in supporting the artisans in our field.

ken

But there's also such a thing as good enough. I will confess that I prefer my Starrett No. 85 dividers (multi-purpose tool with the divider legs in them), but I sure would never have paid retail for them. Cheaper dividers, wing or machinist, will get the job done just as well.

[Kees Heiden]

One of my neighbours bought a BMW 3 series Touring. Isn't he raving mad? The stupid thing costs 41.000 euros! My Skoda from 2007 with 230.000 km on the clock brings me up and down to Spain just fine, thank you very much. And it only cost me 4000.....

(Some people just have a bit more money then me or different priorities. Luckilly for me the second hand market is huge. The neighbour is a nice guy of course).

[Todd Stock]

Crucible did two small runs that sold out in a very short time, and at about $140, IIRC. The higher price is said to reflect their costs of production, but I suspect that it's more market pricing and an understanding that Crucible's customers know that there is absolutely no functional advantage to be had over a set of $12 Chinese dividers.

[Simon MacGowen]

One of my neighbours bought a BMW 3 series Touring. Isn't he raving mad? The stupid thing costs 41.000 euros! My Skoda from 2007 with 230.000 km on the clock brings me up and down to Spain just fine, thank you very much. And it only cost me 4000.....

(Some people just have a bit more money then me or different priorities. Luckilly for me the second hand market is huge. The neighbour is a nice guy of course).

And all those who fly suite class (paying say, $15,000 US) or first class (20 times an econ fare seat) in the same plane with me arriving at the same international destination on the same day and at the same time should all be locked up in a mental institution, right?

$190? That would cover may be the insurance fee.

Most amateur woodworkers have money to spend; there is always a cheaper hobby out there!

Simon

[Jim Koepke]

People can do with their money as they please.

My latest pair of dividers was a bit 'high priced' for my taste at $15. But what the heck, you only live once.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-Shop-Dividers

Shop Dividers.jpg

They have been through about a century of use so far, maybe they can make it another.

jtk

[Steve Kang]

Here's another option, vergez blanchard dividers which are hand made in France and can be had for $69.99 each.
IMG_0254.jpg

[Stanley Covington]

I have never even held Crucible's dividers, but I cannot imagine them being worthy of the fetish some apparently have for them.

Perhaps the equipment depreciation length, during which time only dividers will be made, is one year? That is the only practical explanation of the price. More than likely, production costs have little to do with the price, only marketing.

I suspect they will continue to sell well, because people will pay a lot of extra money just for the Schwarz brand, just as fans pay horrendously inflated prices for sportswear with the name and logo of their favorite sports team. Nothing wrong with that.

[William Fretwell]

I picked up some brass navigation dividers with the bulge at the top for holding and spinning, unused for $3 at a yard sale. They have precision points that only penetrate one layer of chart paper when you apply the precise amount of force!

[Todd Stock]

I've used the one-handed Weems and Plath dividers for everything from chart work to woodworking since the early 1970's...brass body with stainless steel tips, easily sharpened with a slip stone, possessing an effective tensioning scheme, and very rugged . The older models made in England lack the funky drum-shaped junctions between shaft and adjustment head of the more recent Asian-sourced models, so I've squirreled away a half-dozen older pairs of the 7" model. They lack the micro-adjust of the Starrett and Osbourne models, but when set up properly, do a fine job for repetitive layout tasks.

[Stanley Covington]

I've used the one-handed Weems and Plath dividers for everything from chart work to woodworking since the early 1970's...brass body with stainless steel tips, easily sharpened with a slip stone, possessing an effective tensioning scheme, and very rugged .

I have a very old W&P divider a friend gave me many moons ago, but made before stainless steel was available so with HC tips. Excellent tool in every way,and quite elegant in appearance, much more so than the Crucible product, IMO. A new one cost only $37 http://www.weems-plath.com/Website-N...n-Divider.html

[Pat Barry]

So much discussion about a simple but seldom used tool. What exactly are you guys doing that would require such an expensive solution?

[Simon MacGowen]

So much discussion about a simple but seldom used tool. What exactly are you guys doing that would require such an expensive solution?

I suppose people love toys. Except that in this case or other similar cases, they happen to be woodworking tools or accessories.

A couple of years ago, I came to learn about a turned handle for a fret saw that was asking for $80 or so. $80 for the handle, not the saw, which was about $100(?). If you were a friend of mine and paid $100 for a fret saw that does the same job as any other $20 fret saws, I would still call you a woodworking friend of mine. But if you were an active turner and still paid $80 for that handle, I would only call you a friend of mine, but not a woodworking friend anymore.

Somehow, consciously or subconsciously, people in the industry are driving woodworking into pure consumerism. I am not talking about innovation or product improvements or functional upgrades, but pure cosmetic enhancements and bling. These products are easily recognized and can carry all sorts of labels in disguise. Edit: You will also see bloggers and reviewers promoting those products, not in the name of advertising (which is better) but as "user experience" or the like.

[Allen Jordan]

Absurd price as usual, but at least these don't seem to be made of cast iron like the silly holdfasts. Machining looks nice. But I think I'll stick with my old pair that cost $5. A divider just isn't a tool that requires that level of quality.

[Roger Nair]

My experience as a carpenter and timber framer has lead me into investigating the layout tools of the past. Before computers and steel tapes, carpenters and builders used dividers and trammels to develop modular scales, pattern boards and story poles to regulate construction dimensions by a system of stepping out from abstract models. My interest was how was the building before me designed and constructed? So over a few years, I did the graphic modeling and stepping and grew to understand the older process. However, Pat's question is more about uses in hands on craft. Layout of balusters in stair work, on the level or in slope, is easily managed with a divider with screw adjustment, so the starting and ending spacing modules match. Dividers are far more accurate than repeated steps taken with a framing square. Dividers can transfer measurements that can sometimes be difficult or tedious to take. Dividers can be used as transfer scribes for irregular shaped objects. Carefully set dividers are effective math calculators or verifiers. With gently used dividers the stepping process does not produce tic marks that visually clutter a work piece. With dividers one can interpolate + and - modifications off a reference scale. Marks are pin point and not thick as in pen or pencil marks.

The major short coming of the Crucible dividers in my mind is not price but design, as in it lacks a fine spring loaded screw adjustment that will easily regulate spread of the points and locks down the points. Starrett dividers can exceed Crucible in price also variety also lower prices on many models. So with Starrett, you could fulfill specific need. CS Osborne dividers depending on source are a good value for traditional shop standard type dividers that once upon a time had many American toolmakers producing similar models.