Pins and Tails

[Bill McDougal]

I was practicing on a drawer this weekend. Of course, now I need to make something for it to go into, but this was a practice session. It came out as it came out, but looking at the finished product, I got to wondering. Is there are preference for the use of dovetail pins and tails on drawers? I wonder if I mixed them a bit. On my sides, I have pins on the drawer front side and tails connecting to the back. Pins make a bunch of sense on the drawer front, but what about the back? Does it matter? Oh, and the big learning - sharpen, sharpen, sharpen...


drawer_1.jpgdrawer_2.jpg

[James Waldron]

It is customary to have tails on the sides and pins on the front and back for structural reasons. The pins do not offer any substantial resistance to "pulling" and will release fairly easily while the tails mightily resist tensile forces. Since there is little pulling side to side and all the pulling action is front to back when opening and closing the drawer, the preferred arrangement is consonant with the forces to be encountered in use.

[Bill McDougal]

That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is me mixing up pins and tails in my original post. So, tails on the sides, pins on front and back it is. Thanks!

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Bill and a belated welcome to the Creek. Looked up your last thread and found that the reason I hadn't done this earlier is I was in recovery from surgery then.

I wonder if I mixed them a bit. On my sides, I have pins on the drawer front side and tails connecting to the back. Pins make a bunch of sense on the drawer front, but what about the back? Does it matter?

The direction of the tails to pins is fundamental in how it holds the back onto the drawer. There is force against the back of a drawer stuffed with what people will find to fill them. Especially if someone pulls the drawer out to rummage through looking for some trinket they know is inside. That would be an inopportune time for the back to slip off of its pins.

One inexpensive piece of furniture my wife has had for about 40 years has a drawer with the back held in a dado. The dado is close to the end of the side of the drawer. It has not survived the ages.

When I first saw the title of this thread it scared me to think people had become tired of debating sharpness and wanted to get in to the realm of pins or tails first.

For the record, either way works great.

jtk

[George Bokros]

On a drawer that deep I would have more than three dovetail joints if for no other reason appearance.

Just my $.02

[Doug Hepler]

Hello. Bill

The mechanical advice given above is really indisputable -- for a drawer. For a decorative box, do them any way that pleases your eye. Speaking of that, nice work. Based on the pristine appearance of your workbench you have not been at this very long (or do you have a vise on your kitchen table?)

My first serious drawer with hand cut DT had a single DT. IMO a two DT design is fine, but that's a matter of personal taste. Anyway, keep up the good work!

Doug

[Patrick Chase]

While everything said above about the mechanics is true, it ignores one important factor: Glue strength.

The cheek-to-cheek interfaces that hold the pins between the tails will have plenty of surface area, and >1000 lbs/in^2 of shear strength if the joint is well-executed (small gaps, clean, not burnished or otherwise too tight). That's why finger joints work for most practical purposes despite lacking mechanical interlock.

If you build a drawer with an otherwise-good dovetail in the "wrong" orientation then it will likely last for decades anyway. It'll look weird to anybody who knows furniture, though.

[Pat Barry]

Hello. Bill

The mechanical advice given above is really indisputable -- for a drawer. For a decorative box, do them any way that pleases your eye. Speaking of that, nice work. Based on the pristine appearance of your workbench you have not been at this very long (or do you have a vise on your kitchen table?)

My first serious drawer with hand cut DT had a single DT. IMO a two DT design is fine, but that's a matter of personal taste. Anyway, keep up the good work!

Doug

First time I've seen a vise on a kitchen table.

Ps. Nice work on the dovetails. They will be fine and probably will never fail in use.

[Bill McDougal]

Thanks Doug.

I am fairly new to the hand tool scene. My first real hand tool only project was that bench that I built last summer. It looks new because I just got done re-flattening the top and throwing some Waterlox on it a couple of weeks ago.

[Bill McDougal]

George,

I like that idea. This was practice for a couple of shaker style end tables that I'll be making with hand tools. The picture might be a little deceiving as the drawer is only about 8x8x3. It's going to going hold driver bits and go into something to hold my cordless drills. Overkill for garage furniture, but great little project for pratice.

[Bill McDougal]

Patrick,

I thought it looked odd, which is why I posted it. I had some scrap wood and just started fiddling with it without really planning out. Now I know and it looks weird to me too!

Thanks everyone for the replies and information.

[Bill McDougal]

By the way, I never did post up the final project. Making use of unused space under the bench. The drawer holds bits. No real organization to them, just thrown in there and way better than having them everywhere.