Ever felt okay 'bout losing a customer?

[John Lifer]

If I had reaped the rewards of all the "We're going to be rich together" promises, then I'd be a multimillionaire from the engraving business. We had 2 customers come in recently with rush jobs. We did them and did them very cost effectively. Both wanted to see our machines because they were going to buy lasers to do them themselves in the future. You'd have to do 5 years worth to pay for a machine. Neither got to see our machines.

"Hey, I need you to bail me out of a situation I got myself into, but just know that once you bail me out, I'm going to repay the favor by buying a machine just like yours so that you never get another job from me in the future". Nothing gets me more excited about doing your work than you promising to never give me another job and becoming my competition.

I'm in the situation of basement office with machines close by. I did a couple of quick jobs with customer close, one was a test of some parts and I did get one decent job out of the deal. But he made the comment of wanting to rent my machine, uh, NO! and that they might be getting there own. So, I guess I had a one and done. I've tried to make it a point of not having anything running or on when customer comes down. Which at least right now easy with time between jobs. I've been thinking of using spare bedroom upstairs as initial office. This will be ultimate goal, no one in basement. And the guy would have to spend a lot more that 5 years engraving to pay for his machine from the customer he had, I was cheap...... Some people.

[Tim Bateson]

Most of my customers are industrial. So from time to time one of them will hint that it would be easier to do this in-house. I insure they know how complex it is to learn & maintain, all the while being vague on details. Also the cost of a high end machine. Of course I over-state most things. Had a couple try, but came back when they found out in-house was either more expensive than they had believed and/or staff just wasn't trained well. Only one large customer has left & will likely stay gone. They had bought out another gun manufacturing plant, which already used a high end Fiber Laser along with a well trained staff. They didn't buy the plant for this reason, but it was a big bonus when they realized what they had acquired.

[Bill Stearns]

Hey Mike -
FYI. I've since been doing other Yeti tumblers - small orders - the Cermark images are turning out just fine! (thinkin', maybe, first wiping down with alcohol, now, making a difference?)
Also: after that mishap - my mis-engraving of 100+ tumblers, and the way I was treated - I’ve decided, thanks to you all, it’s okay for me to cease dealing with those customers who regularly cause he angst! (The world won’t stop spinning!)


Have, also, decided I won’t take on “large tumbler orders” anymore; feel that my running a less stressful business will offset whatever sales I might forfeit! - and, guess what? - it already has!
A nice, young man, in my area, recently purchased a “fiber” laser engraving machine: jumped right into engraving tumlers! (No Cermark, no handwashing, etc.) I’ve actually been sending my larger order requests over to him! - a load off my mind ‘n a sense that I’m helping a new business get started! (which, as I’m gettin’ older,kinda makes me feel good!) Guess what? My business in engraving/marking “smaller orders” of tumblers (one to a dozen, or so) has significantly increased! - as this fella’s prices are ‘bout 2x my price. Which has also allowed me to raise my prices, so I’m, now, making more profit ‘n on smaller jobs! - and, from happier, easier-to-deal-with, customers! How’s that for turning a potential competitor into a ‘marketing advantage’ for myself? - and, feeling less stressed at the same time!
BILL

[Kev Williams]

I happily invite people downstairs to see my dungeon aka workshop... The looks and first responses I get when they see this place are priceless

I've told many customers outright for the jobs they want me to do they should just get their own machine, but I'll gladly do their work in the meantime. Not once has any of these customers ever bought their own machine, and the vast majority of them are first-time-here customers with $ signs in their eyes wondering how much engraving 5000 'things' of their own design would cost.... and the vast majority of THEM I've never seen again. But some I do-- I have a few pictures of first runs for their "big internet rollout"... after which---- crickets...

[Mike Null]

Bill
I certainly understand the desire to have a less stressful situation but I do high volumes of Yeti and Yeti clones. I have 300 on hand at the moment and it is easily the most profitable business I do with the laser.

The problem you had, sad to say, was of your own making. We've all had a similar experience or more than one. All you need do is change your process a bit and you can confidently turn out high quality and high-profit products consistently without stress.

Clean every piece before you coat it. Stop using the spray can and mix your own chemical. Use a sponge brush instead of a spray application. It's more reliable and economical.

[Tim Bateson]

What Mike said... but I would add - use up your LMM-6000, then switch to 6038 or 14. These are much more flexible/forgiving. They mark even chrome with ease and applying thick or thin doesn't matter.

[Matt McCoy]

What Mike said... but I would add - use up your LMM-6000, then switch to 6038 or 14. These are much more flexible/forgiving. They mark even chrome with ease and applying thick or thin doesn't matter.

Production of CerMark 6038 to end:

http://cermarksales.com/6222-2/

[John Lifer]

I DO like the 14, brushes easy, and for the most part, easy to work with. I've not done hundreds at a time, the one thing that is bad about the 14 is it brushed off real easy. You can finger it in the wrong spot hand have to redo. IF you catch it!

[Kev Williams]

i've never used anything BUT 6000. Not broke ain't fixinit thing

As to 'bare spots', concur with the 'of my own doing' crowd. There's typically only 2 reasons I've had it happen, (1) not quite in focus, (2) didn't clean the metal first, which is almost always the reason. Just a light thumbprint will cause a no-stick from the oil in your skin.

What to clean with? I've found no one yet to agree with me, but Windex and Fantastik work every bit as well as DNA or acetone. I use Windex at least half the time. As long as it cuts grease, it works. I also know many of you clean off all visible DNA residue when pre-cleaning. That's one thing I never do... why? The worst things I have to Cermark is the knife blades a local guy makes. They're so highly polished they make chrome look like sandpaper. Cermark would stick better to Teflon. After the Cermark dries on one of these blades, it loses its grip, curls up and all I have to do is pucker up and a light poof will blow the patch of Cermark right off. But, if I give the blade a good wipe with DNA or Windex, and follow up with a light-smear wipe, it evaporates and leaves that haze nobody likes. Except me, because that haze gives the Cermark something to adhere to...

I've gone thru 3000g worth of LMM6000 so far this year with no failures, regardless of what I pre-clean with or the haze I leave behind. What can I say, it works for me!

[Bill Stearns]

Hey All - Bill 'gain!
Well, get this!
No sooner had I told you all I had decided I wasn’t gonna take-on “large quantity” tumbler orders ever again, than I received an order for four-hundred! - 400! - and, best part, this company’s not squeezin’ the life (aka: profit) out’ a me like that other outfit I had the run-in with! - was kinda like in the Godfather movie, “an offer I can’t refuse!”- so, thanks to your encouragement 'n advice, I'm gonna accept the job! Heck, would probably miss the stress anyway! (Plus, I’ve since done several smaller orders, this time, wiping down with alcohol ‘n experienced no problems!) Have several cans of Cermark-6000 to use up; would like to try brush-on, but I'm ‘little leery of changin’ horses in midstream. (Time I did try the liquid, years 'go, I had used an airbrush 'n it seemed like a hassle!) - So, anyway ... Wish me Luck! - BILL

[Kev Williams]

Bill--

Take all those cans of Cermark and put them on a table, preferably within arm's reach of a vice. Find a hacksaw, a nail and something to hit it with...

You'll need a couple of small storage tubs or old cottage cheese containers, and some sort of reasonably air-tight jars, at least a pint size--

You'll need a gallon of DNA. Don't get a quart, it costs 75% of the gallon cost, and you WILL use it. (between mixing and SS pre-cleaning I've gone thru 3 gallons this year)

Grab a can with each hand, turn it upside down, and start shaking- for at least 3 minutes... flip the cans around occasionally, and to roll the marbles around the bottom occasionally...

- take the nail an poke a small hole in the top of the 2 cans, and wait for the pressure to escape.

The vice is to hold the can but a helper will be handy here-- About 3" down the can, hacksaw the top of the can off. Halfway thru you'll run into the feed straw, just cut thru it. These cans are only slightly thicker than soda cans, a little tricky to cut the tops off of...

Once the top is off, pour the Cermark into one of the tubs, and remove the marbles and straw pieces. Transfer the Cermark to your jar...

Check the bottom of the can for hardened 'mud'. For what this stuff costs, it's essentially liquid gold! Get a screwdriver or similar and dig it out best as possible, and add it to the jar.

take about 1/3 cup of DNA and pour it in the can- swish it around to get all the excess Cermark. A long artists paint brush helps if it's stubborn.

Now pour this into the second tub. This is now your thinning agent for the rest of the Cermark.

Repeat this for all the cans, reuse the 'thinning agent' DNA to clean all the cans. Add a little more DNA if necessary.

You might be amazed at how much hard mud is likely hiding in the empty cans too. I had one empty can make a half-cup of premix once, that's about $30 worth!

Once you're done you'll need to put the thinning DNA in its own airtight container. Also use this DNA to soak out your foam brushes too after 'painting'. Soon it will have enough residual Cermark in that it will be almost strong enough to use as pre-mix itself!

You'll need one more jar for making pre-mix and to brush from. Put a couple of the marbles in to help with mixing...

I use my old 500g Cermark jars for everything, because they're very airtight, and tall enough to 'spin dry' the brushes. I use wood handled brushes so I CAN spin-dry them, spinning them between my thumb and finger quickly-- a few spins flings away nearly all the Cermark, then a couple of dunks in the thinning bottle and a few spins and the brushes are 95% Cermark free, brushes last longer and waste is kept to a bare minimum...

The 250g bottles are good too, but I go thru this stuff so fast they just aren't big enough!

I just cut open a half-full can just last week, and I found what's in the can is almost as thick as what comes in the bottles- This was an old can of the old formula stuff however. 2 parts DNA to 1 part canned was perfect for brushing-- I'm only getting 2.5 to 1 with the current formula bottled stuff. Anyway, start with an equal portions DNA to Cermark mix to start...

Here's my way of judging the perfect brush mix...

Take one of the medium (20oz?) yeti's or a clone...
Dunk the brush into the premix-
pull the brush just above the surface of the mix- let it drain out--
give the brush one 'medium speed' back/forth spin to remove some of the excess..
Now, from the top of the cup brush down an inch or two...
--If it runs madly down the sides of the cup like milk, and runs almost all the way around to the bottom of the cup, too thin...
--If it doesn't run, or just barely runs, too thick...
--If it runs down the side in a few places, but takes its time and only makes it halfway down the cup-- you're there!
(note that for flat stuff you can get even thinner, but it's hard to brush jars if it's much thinner...)

It takes a little practice to load the brush right- basically I just try to get it as full as possible without it dripping from the jar to the part.

You'll love it

[Tim Bateson]

I just quoted a customer $20/ea for dual sided Yeti engraving/marking - logos are rather large. He tried to tell me the industry standard cost was only $6/ea. After I finished laughing, I told him good luck.

[John Lifer]

Im hungry, but not two sided for $6 hungry. I dont do a lot, but I do a repetitive logo with names and try to keep my price to $10 and $5 for second side. About as low as worth doing.

[Mike Null]

My rate is usually around $10 and I base my pricing on a 2.5" logo width and not more than that in height. My best customer is at $6.00 for that size logo but he's given me almost 2,000 pieces this year.

I have a couple of orders on hand that are for 36 pieces and I quoted them at $8.

We bid a 20,000 piece job a couple of weeks ago at $4.50--they went to Yeti who quoted free.

[Bill Stearns]

MIKE
Egad! - 20,000 tumblers! Just workin’ on my order of 400, I’m already dreaming of tumblers in my sleep!


That sure ticks-me-off hearing how Yeti cut you out of a potential sale; obviously, nobody can compete with “FREE”! Mike - I’d like to see you start a new “thread” ‘bout this! - imagine plenty of others would like to know. And, I’d sure like to hear how others feel ‘bout Yeti cuttin’ into our livelihoods in this way. Guess I was vaguely ‘ware that Yeti offers graphics engraving. Would be helpful to know their actual pricing for engraving lower quantities, and at what quantity the “Free” kicks in? (anybody know for sure?) Wonder if Yeti would think twice ‘bout this “free business”, if they thought ‘bunch of us, nation wide, were gonna start suggesting alternative brands to our customers? Not ‘big problem for me; sizable orders, like this 400, are a rarity. Guess I’m thankful this order came ‘long when it did but, frankly, nothin’ I’d want’ a do steady. - 'cause, at this stage of my life, well ... you know. BILL