Arm-R-Seal over Maloof finish?

[Gabor Siklos]

Hi,

I've been using Sam Maloof's finish for a couple of years now and found out like many others that while it's beautiful it's not as durable as I'd like it to be. (I always mix my own: 1/3 tung oil, 1/3 BLO, 1/3 poly.)

I'd like to start using Arm-R-Seal poly instead, but I have a few pieces that I applied a couple of coats of Maloof finish already. Can I just do the last few coats with Arm-R-Seal on those as well?

Thanks,

-Gabor

[Gabor Siklos]

Anybody? All suggestions are welcome...

Thanks

[Prashun Patel]

It can sometimes be a problem applying a hard finish over a softer one as will be the case here. However, if the SM finish has sufficiently dried, then you may likely be ok.

If it were me, I'd wipe the surface with mineral spirits to remove as much of the 'free' oil as possible. Then you may be ok to apply the Arm R Seal right on top.

Your best hope for success will be to allow the piece to dry as long as you can stand it before applying the arm r seal.

[Wayne Lomman]

Applying any form of solvent drives your oils etc into the timber. If the piece is a couple of years old, test coat somewhere out of sight and see what happens. Give the area a light sand prior to coating. I'm not surprised this concoction doesn't last. Cheers

[Edwin Santos]

It can sometimes be a problem applying a hard finish over a softer one as will be the case here. However, if the SM finish has sufficiently dried, then you may likely be ok.

If it were me, I'd wipe the surface with mineral spirits to remove as much of the 'free' oil as possible. Then you may be ok to apply the Arm R Seal right on top.

Your best hope for success will be to allow the piece to dry as long as you can stand it before applying the arm r seal.

Personally, I think of Arm R Seal as a wiping varnish and I don't see why it wouldn't play nicely with an oil/varnish blend like the SM formula. They're both compatible reactive finishes.
However if we're feeling conservative, why couldn't he wipe on a coat of dewaxed shellac to seal in the SM finish and after a day, begin topcoating with Arm R Seal for the protection he's seeking? Dewaxed shellac is like that person at a party who gets along with everyone and coaxes everyone into getting along with each other.

If it were me, I'd wipe on some Arm R Seal in an inconspicuous area and see what happens. I predict Bob will be your uncle, but the barrier coat of DW shellac is your fallback.

[Prashun Patel]

Edwin-
The SM formula contains varnish - but also boiled linseed and tung oil. These take a long time to fully dry, and when they do, they do not dry hard. If the Oilvarnish has been applied and not fully buffed off (as evidenced by mild stickiness to the touch) then the armrseal on top may have problems adhering or drying. That's why it's best to wipe with mineral spirits - which will remove surface oil.

You can certainly apply shellac; but if this is being used on something like a chair, applying shellac can be a bear without a sprayer.

[Edwin Santos]

Prashun, you're right about the softer finish and slower cure time for BLO and/or tung oil.
This thread is making me remember a finish from the late great Tage Frid he called the 4F finish. It's in his book in the finishing section.

For anyone who is unfamiliar with it, what he did when pressed for time was wipe on a coat of 50/50 blended Danish Oil and Shellac. Wipe it on and leave it for a while until a little tacky, then buff off with steel wool or a cloth lubricated with a few drops here and there of alcohol (think French Polishing). Then leave it for 24 hours and proceed to topcoat any way you like, even waterborne. Supposedly, this finish will give the user the combination of an oil finish's lustre, and speed. The story goes he came up with it when under time pressure to complete something.
I always had a hard time wrapping my head around this finish schedule because it sounds so counter-intuitive to mix shellac and oil together, but then again, Mr. Frid is the gold standard and I would blindly trust absolutely anything he said about woodworking. This is what made me think of the shellac barrier coat, or the OP could do an application of 4F just as described above using his SM finish combined with shellac, padded on. Or as you say, he could buff out what's there, like Mr. Frid advises, with steel wool and a few drops of solvent, and then proceed.

Also, we're assuming the OP's piece is not cured and still tacky, and this may not be the case. If not, I still say go right ahead and apply a little Arm R Seal to an inconspicuous area and see what happens. There's a very good chance everything will be fine.

Here's a link to an article by David Marks where he talks about topcoating an oil finish with Lacquer using a shellac barrier coat: http://www.djmarks.com/davids-blog/a...an-oil-finish/ I think the OP could follow this if necessary and stop at the Arm-R-Seal stage.

Brushing a heavy cut shellac onto a complex piece could indeed be a bear, but padding thin shellac coats is one of the easiest, time honored finish applications around.

[Gabor Siklos]

Thanks both Prashun and Edwin for the replies and insight. I applied 3 coats of the SM finish about a week ago (last coat) and thoroughly buffed it out after each coat so it's not tacky. I think I'll wait another week or so and then buff it out with some steel wool + mineral spirits and then apply the Arm-R-Seal. I also found ta where Charles Neil is offering similar advice (i.e. go over it with mineral spirits or coat of shellac before applying the Arm-R-Seal).

Thanks!