Matching 25 year old cherry cabinets.

[Evan Stewart]

Several months ago I got a call from a customer who needed some help making changes to her kitchen. It is the first kitchen in a long time where I actually advised against replacing the existing cabinets. They are beautiful small shop made cherry cabinets with plywood boxes, solid cherry faces and doors. I am rebuilding the cabinet above the refrigerator and the panel beside it in addition to new drawer slides, hinges and refinishing the interiors.

I have been dialing in on the color and i think I have it almost exactly matched. There is obviously some variance in color in the cherry itself and what I have settled on looks like an exact match in some places and looks like it needs more dark brown in others.

My usual method for making slight tint changes is to add the dye to a pre wash of sanding sealer and water, raise the grain, sand, wash again adding more tint if necessary and stain. Using this method on test pieces I am very close.

This morning I started stripping the old full height fridge panel with a belt sander to recycle the wood and now I am questioning my plan. Once the lacquer was removed and some of the stain there was an obvious line where an adjacent base cabinet had been covering it for 25 years. Above the line the color was noticeably darker than bellow. On the opposite side of the kitchen there is a China cabinet that gets direct sunlight and as expected that one has faded a fair amount.

I informed the customer from the beginning that I would not be able to 100% match the color appearance and sheen of 25 year old cabinets.
Is it probable that the existing wood will continue to darken?

If so and I tint everything to match the existing cabinets as they appear now, is it probable my work will darken at a faster rate than the existing wood?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Sam Murdoch]

You have accepted an almost unwinnable challenge . There is no question that the color of your new work will be evolving relative to the existing kitchen but - BIG BUT - the psychology of the 1st impression will be more the point. If you bring in the new refrigerator cabinet and panel very closely matching the existing, the clients will see that and be very happy and amazed. You have already set their expectations to be less than that. As the years progress and the color continues to change the client's perception will change right along with the hues. If you try to anticipate the future the, 1st impression will be based on your selling the concept of future change - a losing proposition - and you could be wrong. Don't explain any further. Just deliver and all will be well (IMHO)

My vote is to stay on your course of action.

[Mel Fulks]

Sam,well said. It's like one of those twilight zone things. Old guy wants to look young. Gets to look young ,but gets stuck on young. His young wife gets real old. Bummer. Yeah ,sometimes you see a set of chairs with a couple of them different color. Careful look shows they were made at different time to expand old set.

[Doug Hepler]

IMO Sam nailed it.

[Wayne Lomman]

Just match the colour now. Nothing else is acceptable or credible. How it ages is in the lap of the gods. Cheers

[Bill Adamsen]

If so and I tint everything to match the existing cabinets as they appear now, is it probable my work will darken at a faster rate than the existing wood?

My experience like everyone else) is that cherry - being exceptionally photo reactive - darkens quickly initially but reaches a terminal color point. The speed is related to the exposure to light. I'm sure I'm not the only person to leave a ruler, tool or block of wood atop a piece of cherry in the shop only to be dismayed later when lifting it and seeing the discoloration shadow. I suspect your coloring will actually protect the wood from further reaction. So to Sam's point, if you get it to the expected color that meets expectations now, it will likely in the future as well.

Using UV blocking finishes such as most water based varnishes or lacquer "might" also likely lock-in your color change. This is something I now have a lot of interest in, but not much experience with. Love to hear others experience with how these finishes stop (or don't) the color change in different woods.

[Jim Becker]

If you use cherry...matching now means it's going to look different in a year. You could consider building with a "non cherry" look-alike grain wise, like alder, and color to match current. Something that doesn't darken as precipitously as cherry does. Otherwise, install the new cherry cabinet "lighter" than existing and explain to your customer that with time, the colors will get closer.

[Michelle Rich]

why not take the new doors outside in the sun? they will darken quickly..when they are close, take them & install them

[Evan Stewart]

Oh man, a lot of good answers. This is exactly what I was afraid of, no matter what I do it's pretty much a crap shoot. I think at this point I am inclined to agree with Sam's course of action. The customers seem most concerned with the way it will look now. From the beginning i have explained that I would not be able to match it exactly. I sent them pictures of what i am 99% sure is the right stain color, they said it looked like it should be a little darker. Yesterday when I stripped the panel and compared the section that has been covered for 25 years to the test pieces I am even more sure that the color is a match. However as of this afternoon they still are inclined to go with a little more dark brown.

This is only the second time ever that I have agreed to do this. I just couldn't in good conscience suggest replacing cabinets that are of the same quality that I make. I also steered her away from painting them all white, I don't think I could have brought myself to do it.

So I guess im commited to matching the current color. I am using waterborne stain and top coat and the dark brown dye in my pre wash. Is there a better method that might help minimize or slow color change?

[Mel Fulks]

Good luck, Evan! I would disregard the 'go darker' since most people claim later that "they got them a little too dark".
I believe in making them look at the sample held vertically ...not horizontally under an overhead light.

[Sam Murdoch]

Don't disregard the lighting variances in the room. Daylight at the refrigerator is your target and so the color sample you are making should look as near perfect in its home. Can you bring a piece and see it in the real world environment? We all know that different days/time of day are all factors. This is why I started my 1st post with "You have accepted an almost unwinnable challenge ." You have to trust your eye and cannot rely on the client to be able to call the shots from photos. I write with such authority - sorry. Not intending to be pedantic but I've been there. You do your best. If they say after the fact that they want it darker - tell them to call you in a year.

Mel - says it right - "making them look at the sample held vertically ...not horizontally under an overhead light." The overhead light should be the same as in the room.

Good luck.

[John TenEyck]

My experience using UV stabilized acrylic topcoats has been very good in preventing future color change in stained cherry for the 5 or 6 years since I first used one. Old cherry doesn't change much, so if you can match the color of your new work and use a UV stabilized topcoat all should be well.

John

[Evan Stewart]

I am going to the house tomorrow to do some work on a pantry and cabinet interiors. Unfortunately they are out of town for the next couple of weeks so pictures are the only way to visually communicate. Since I will be there for a decent part of the day I will be able to check the color in different light, very solid advice Thanks!

I am definitely not going to go beyond adding a bit of dark brown to the pre wash. I personally think the stain color is correct.

[Bill Adamsen]

My experience using UV stabilized acrylic topcoats has been very good in preventing future color change in stained cherry for the 5 or 6 years since I first used one. Old cherry doesn't change much, so if you can match the color of your new work and use a UV stabilized topcoat all should be well.

John

Thanks John ... I've been curious about that. I know that GF waterborne Enduro CV and the wb Enduro pre-Cat Lacquer are both acrylic based ... I know you use at least the former, and assume you are referring to one of those?

[John TenEyck]

Never used GF'S CV yet, and their Clear Poly does not have a UV package as far as I know. The products I've used that do are GF'S HP Poly and SW'S Kem Aqua Plus. HP Poly sprays far easier but only the Kem Aqua Plus is KCMA rated, so that would be my choice for kitchen cabs. It's finicky to spray well, though, at least for me, and takes a long time to cure.

John