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Thread: Carbide Tilt on Hunter Hollowing tools

  1. #1
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    Carbide Tilt on Hunter Hollowing tools

    I am wondering if someone with a Hunter Osprey hollowing tool or a Hunter#3 full Swan Neck Hollowing tool could provide me with some information.

    From the Hunter website pictures it appears that the tip of the Hunter Osprey HT is tilted forward. I'm wondering if someone with that tool could provide me with that angle?

    Also, the Swan Neck tool appears to be tilted counter clockwise (from the handle end) by perhaps 30 or 40 degrees. I would appreciate if someone could measure that angle for me.

    Finally, I'm wondering what the cutting or control difference is between tilting the cutter forward versus tilting it sideways?

    Thanks in advance to those who may be able to respond.

  2. #2
    Brice, I will let someone else address the angles, but just know you will have much better success cutting off the front nose of the cutter - at the lowest point of the edge. Otherwise, cut to the side of the nose and you are going to get a catch. Mike has some videos on his site, as I recall, and I find it much better to ride the bevel with the tools.
    Last edited by John Keeton; 09-09-2017 at 6:09 PM.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    I am wondering if someone with a Hunter Osprey hollowing tool or a Hunter#3 full Swan Neck Hollowing tool could provide me with some information.
    From the Hunter website pictures it appears that the tip of the Hunter Osprey HT is tilted forward. I'm wondering if someone with that tool could provide me with that angle?
    Also, the Swan Neck tool appears to be tilted counter clockwise (from the handle end) by perhaps 30 or 40 degrees. I would appreciate if someone could measure that angle for me.
    Finally, I'm wondering what the cutting or control difference is between tilting the cutter forward versus tilting it sideways?
    Thanks in advance to those who may be able to respond.
    Brice, Some time in the last year or so I measured the two Hercules, the two sizes of Osprey, and several other Hunter tools - basically everything I had with angled cutters. I'm sure I did this while communicating with Mike about something but unfortunately I cannot find the email - maybe we discussed them by phone. If I can't find the paper where I wrote them down I could measure them again, probably Sunday afternoon or evening. (unless someone beats me to it) I think I have the #3 Swan neck (that's the one with the 10mm cutter, non-tapered shaft?) but I'll have to check. I get so confused with his number/name "system"!

    Do you want to know the angle on the large Osprey or the small one? (in case they are different) I think one has a 6mm cutter and one an 8mm cutter. I don't know what an Osprey HT is.

    I've used both the tilted and non tilted cutters. The tilted cutter like on the Hercules and Osprey really excel when using the tool as a gouge in the bevel-rubbing mode, cutting spindles, the inside of a bowl, etc. You have very good support from the bevel just like a spindle or bowl gouge and can take deep or whisper cuts. I don't think I've every caught one. Both tilted and non-tilted cutters work fine when used as scrapers tilted sideways (rotated a bit counterclockwise), say inside a steeper-sided form such as a box. I don't think there is as much difference between when used like this.

    BTW, I shape the heel of the bevels and polish them like this so they don't burnish the wood when cutting in the bevel-rubbing mode:

    hunter_hercules_mod.jpg

    Here are some of the angled cutters, two Hercules, small Osprey, the Clewes mate - I guess you could measure the angles from the photo. Some in this picture are not yet modified:

    HUNTER4_side_IMG_20160803_1.jpg HUNTER4_top_IMG_20160803_10.jpg

    JKJ

  4. #4
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    Measured angles on Hunter carbide tools

    Brice,

    Small Osprey, 6mm cutter: cutter tilt 37-deg

    Large Osprey, 8mm cutter, 38-deg

    Small Hercules, 6mm cutter, 30-deg

    Large Hercules, 10mm cutter, 30 deg

    Angles measured with a Mitutoyo angle gauge, rounded to the nearest degree. Cutter angles are the tilt from horizontal with the tool horizontal, the tilt from the long axis of the shaft. (The grind angle for a gouge is measured differently.)

    I do like the Hercules better than the Osprey but I haven't tried to figure out why, whether it's the cutter tilt angle or the square shaft.

    I didn't keep the swan neck tool with the constant diameter shaft. I do have the newer swan neck tool with the tapered shaft. However, I couldn't measure the two angles today (CCW from above and the angle of tilt from centerline) since the compound angles and tapered shaft would require careful setup and alignment which would take more time than I have right now. Just call Mike Hunter and ask. (Use the number on his web site.) He is always ready to help.

    JKJ

  5. #5
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    Many thanks John for taking the time to measure the angles and to respond. Thanks for the suggestion to call Mike.

    BR

  6. #6
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    I enjoy making tools for my own personal (non-commercial) use. I have a small machine shop but my equipment, tooling, and fixtures are limited and simple. Using John's measurements and pictures from the internet, I made my own equivalent of the Hunter Hercules #3. There are a few differences - - the finish on mine is shiny, my tool rod is longer and I don't have the right screw yet. Here are some pictures. The tools are very similar to the commercially manufactured ones, although the camera perspective doesn't capture that. I think that my next homemade tool may be an Osprey....

    IMG_0023 (1024x768).jpg IMG_0022 (1024x768).jpg

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    I enjoy making tools for my own personal (non-commercial) use. I have a small machine shop but my equipment, tooling, and fixtures are limited and simple. Using John's measurements and pictures from the internet, I made my own equivalent of the Hunter Hercules #3. There are a few differences - - the finish on mine is shiny, my tool rod is longer and I don't have the right screw yet. Here are some pictures. The tools are very similar to the commercially manufactured ones, although the camera perspective doesn't capture that. I think that my next homemade tool may be an Osprey....

    IMG_0023 (1024x768).jpg
    Nice job! Mike sells the cutters and the spare screws that fits nicely, flush into the countersunk hole. You can also buy his cutters from other vendors.

    If you need more dimensions just ask. I know Mike would like to sell you tools but I don't think he minds people making their own, I've heard of others doing that (unless they were to go into production!) If you like how it cuts you might mention that - advertisement for those without machining capability!

    I don't know if I mentioned it, but I use my Hercules tools, large and small, for spindles, goblets, boxes, bowls, etc.

    JKJ
    Last edited by John K Jordan; 09-19-2017 at 4:51 PM. Reason: type

  8. #8
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    Very nice work Brice!

  9. #9
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    John, you mentioned that you use your Hercules tools on a lot of different things. Do you consider using it more as a roughing tool or do you also use it as a final finishing tool?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    John, you mentioned that you use your Hercules tools on a lot of different things. Do you consider using it more as a roughing tool or do you also use it as a final finishing tool?
    Brice,

    I actually use them more for finish turning than roughing but do use them for both. For example, I am (slowly) making another ebony box for my experiments with threading. This is a piece of B&W ebony about 3" square, in end grain orientation. I used the Thompson roughing gouge to round the outside, the large Hercules to shape the outside, and the small Hercules for finish cuts on the outside, both in the bevel--rubbing mode. As usual, I tried several different tools for each phase to learn what I liked best for that particular wood and the Hercules worked the best. Shear scrapers left some tearout on this particular wood but the Hercules surface was clean and almost polished.

    For the inside of this box the Hercules was useless for end grain hollowing but good for final shaping on the sides, used in the scraping mode. I do use the Hercules for "rough" hogging cuts hollowing the inside of bowls and platters. Also good for shaping and final cuts on spindles. Note that I almost always turn dry wood and usually hard, dry wood - the harder the better! The Hunter tools excel at very hard exotics. I use them for turning cast acrylic too.

    You can use them to rough the outsides of spindles either with bevel rubbing or pushing straight in like some people use a roughing gouge. I also used them roughing the outside of my last few Beads of Courage boxes used just like a bowl gouge, although I prefer a 1/2" bowl gouge for most of that. This was with dry 8" walnut and cherry glued-up blanks in face orientation. (Again, one of my hobbies is switching tools to see how they behave! I'll make lots of "finish cut" practice passes as I work towards the final shape.)

    Have you looked at the youtube videos that John Lucas made about the Hunter tools? Some are older but might be useful. (He's been using these since Mike first started developing them.) Try a google search for youtube lucas hercules tool for videos on the Hercules, Osprey, and others and for some possibly useful info in another forum.

    John told me he taught a beginner course at the Appalachian Center for Craft using nothing but Hunter tools! Rouging, finish cuts, everything. I suspect he would be glad to share his experiences and answer questions. You can find him on some other turning forums or I'd be glad to ask if it is OK to pass his phone number to you. Sir Lucas is an incredibly creative and helpful guy!

    JKJ

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