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Thread: New LV Combo Plane

  1. #31
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    Slightly off topic but I'm selling a Record 045 multi plane on behalf of someone else. I'm taking the opportunity to try it out before moving it on. The first set up I used was the sash profile cutter. I could set it and stick a sash profile. However it was a fiddle and the process made me realise that it would be much easier to use a moulding plane and sash fillister. I would go as far as to say I'd rather buy a shaper to stick larger mouldings than work with a multi plane. I look forward to trying the other cutters, they are very similar to the Veritas offering, and see how they work out. At this moment my opinion is multi planes aren't much fun. Not sure I'll ever use the Veritas, I'm sure it's as good as a multi plane could be, but maybe you can't polish a turd. Steampunk boat anchor perhaps? Look forward to people who have purchased the Veritas sharing their experiences.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Slightly off topic but I'm selling a Record 045 multi plane on behalf of someone else. I'm taking the opportunity to try it out before moving it on. The first set up I used was the sash profile cutter. I could set it and stick a sash profile. However it was a fiddle and the process made me realise that it would be much easier to use a moulding plane and sash fillister. I would go as far as to say I'd rather buy a shaper to stick larger mouldings than work with a multi plane. I look forward to trying the other cutters, they are very similar to the Veritas offering, and see how they work out. At this moment my opinion is multi planes aren't much fun. Not sure I'll ever use the Veritas, I'm sure it's as good as a multi plane could be, but maybe you can't polish a turd. Steampunk boat anchor perhaps? Look forward to people who have purchased the Veritas sharing their experiences.
    Your post reminds me of someone who tried riding a bicycle and gave up after their first fall.

    My first attempts at using a multi-bladed plow plane and later a Stanley #45 were also somewhat frustrating at times. There are many little nuances to, as you say, "fiddle" before it all falls into place.

    The curve of learning taught me a lot about using other planes as well. Now when different moldings are seen in public, private homes, on TV or in movies my mind sometimes wanders off into how it could be made with the tools in my shop. With just a few different planes and/or blades it is possible to make a wide selection of molding without the expense, the space needed or the noise of a shaper.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #33
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    Anyone else read those Blogs? You might even find one of mine, about the Cherry project on the same page.....

  4. #34
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    I read the blog and thought he made valid observations.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Anyone else read those Blogs? You might even find one of mine, about the Cherry project on the same page.....
    I finally read the 6-part blog/review about the LV combo on the "jock site", but that can't possibly be the one you described earlier in the thread. The conclusions are completely different, other than the part about nickers failing in pine. Which one were you describing?
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 09-13-2017 at 2:51 PM.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    I finally read the 6-part blog/review about the LV combo on the "jock site", but that can't possibly be the one you described earlier in the thread. The conclusions are completely different, other than the part about nickers failing in pine. Which one were you describing?

    BTW I've never been kicked off of a WW forum in my life.
    Is it against the posting rules that you can't give the blog link here? Why are people so cryptic about this review? Don't know what 6-part blog you people are referring to.

    I always look at magazine reviews on any tools with caution as they tend to go along with whatever the tool manufacturers pitch (any tool makers that they do business with). Impartiality only exists to a certain extent no matter who the reviewer is, and that is human nature. I prefer Steven's Devil's advocate approach when it comes to new tools as we can always learn a thing or two from a perspective taken from a different angle.

    It is a joke when someone posts a review based on one single session of use of a tool, positive or negative. This is not to say the reviewer is a joke, but that anyone who thinks the review means anything is joking themselves. If we keep our minds open, we can come to a better judgment regardless of what the reviewers or the tool makers tell us.

    My position remains unchanged: I prefer a new, improved Combo Plane over any Stanley's, but I won't order anything till I get a chance to try it out. The Woodworking Shows will have its new show schedule out soon, according to their notice. I will attend the one that Veritas brings its new plane along. That will be how I decide to buy or wait till Lie-Nielsen releases its.

    Simon

  7. #37
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    I get the feeling, that there WILL be a review coming to this site...very soon. Not allowed to say who will be posting it ( not me, need the money for rent, LOL) Merely have to wait until he gets his review finished.

    "Tom, Bert, and William" ....A Scientist with a closed mind is handicapped towards failure...

    I have been more than happy with my #45 over the past year or two of use. Before that, it was plough planes with bodies made of Beech, back in the 1860s....contrary to popular rumours , I was NOT around when they made that one.....nor did Abe Lincoln teach me how to drive.....

  8. #38
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    Is it against the posting rules that you can't give the blog link here?
    There are Terms Of Service prohibitiing the posting of links to other woodworking forums.

    My understanding is it may be okay mentioning the review in question is on the LumberJocks (dot com) forum and is in the blog section written by a person going by MOS or Mosquito.

    If the above is a violation of the TOS, would a moderator please indicate as such, thank you.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #39
    Thanks Jim. Will do a peek there and read for myself what all the fuss is about, even though I am no big fan of reviews per se.

    As for the posting limitations, I learned from a fellow who has written articles for (non-woodworking) magazine that he once included a picture showing the magazine he was writing for as well as the covers of a couple other magazines (in the background), the editor asked him to retake the shot. He wasn't happy about the request but went along. He decided that that was the last time he wrote for that publication. He has done something similar a few times with other magazines before but no other editors advised him to stop. Different house rules at different places.

    Simon

  10. #40
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    Jim, your response reminds me of a man that thinks listening to a one man band is better than listening to a good group or an orchestra . I will admit my post had a hint of provocation, thanks for furthering the discussion. Yes, I think a multi plane can be used, it could also be considered useful. If I were to advise a purchaser about an effective plough, rebate and moulding set up it would be a buy a plough, a rebate plane and moulding planes as required. No need to hurry on the moulding planes, it's not likely someone would need a huge amount of moulders.
    Budget approach, #78 for rebate work, #44 ploughing, rehab a moulding plane as and when needed. Of course there are names that could be dropped that make excellent products, similar to those options I've described. You could also use a multi plane, they can be used.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Jim, your response reminds me of a man that thinks listening to a one man band is better than listening to a good group or an orchestra . I will admit my post had a hint of provocation, thanks for furthering the discussion. Snipe.
    Interestingly, your one man band analogy reminds me of a recent blog by a publisher about a customer letter/email he received regarding prices/softcover edition. There, 99.99% of the people, except one, sided with the publisher, with some belittling the customer, such as (to the effect) if you have never run a business, you are not qualified to tell the publisher how to run his business. Conveniently, these people forgot that many successful businesses failed or were less successful than they should be because they failed to listen to their customers. The overwhelmingly supportive responses were nothing surprising because only those who registered can comment there. If you are not one of his fans, chances are you won't register for his blog. The publisher appeared to take the high road by not rejecting the customer in the same abusive tone his fans did, but he knew by publishing the letter, his supporters would do the dirty job for him. Even unreasonable customers (the writer wasn't if you asked me) offering a suggestion should not be treated like that in any business.

    In the business world, group think (potentially present in any group or orchestras setting, to use the same analogy) is something good leaders work hard to avoid or subdue.

    So which music is better -- from Eric Clapton playing solo and unplugged, or from a heavy metal band? It really depends on the listener's music background and taste. Both types of musicians exist amicably.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 09-13-2017 at 7:58 PM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Jim, your response reminds me of a man that thinks listening to a one man band is better than listening to a good group or an orchestra . I will admit my post had a hint of provocation, thanks for furthering the discussion. Yes, I think a multi plane can be used, it could also be considered useful. If I were to advise a purchaser about an effective plough, rebate and moulding set up it would be a buy a plough, a rebate plane and moulding planes as required. No need to hurry on the moulding planes, it's not likely someone would need a huge amount of moulders.
    I think we can all agree that dedicated planes are preferable when practicable. For example I have dedicated rebate and plow planes because I do that sort of work more often than any of the other functions of the combo, and there's no question that those dedicated planes do their jobs more conveniently (and better in the case of the rebate).

    With that said, if you want to experiment with a profile (i.e. not even sure that it's what you want) or stick a short run, the IMO combo planes can make sense. It's a lot easier to approximate a profile with existing cutters or even to fabricate a dedicated cutter than it is to make/buy a moulding plane. At the same time it works faster and better than a scratch stock (though admittedly it's much easier to make custom profiles for the latter)

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    So which music is better -- from Eric Clapton playing solo and unplugged, or from a heavy metal band? It really depends on the listener's music background and taste. Both types of musicians exist amicably.
    I'll take the one that goes to 11.

  14. #44
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    Simon, if there is a comparison between your feeling towards a blog post and my discussion with Jim I hope I have not been dismissive of him. As I said, there was a hint of provocation to further the discussion. My main reason for adding my thoughts were to raise discussion about effective multi planes really are. My experience with them when compared with other forms is not so good. I think it more productive to have a dedicated tool.

    Patrick, in addition to the scratch stock for different profiles I once picked up a craftsman made moulding plane. An open sided plane (if my memory serves similar to early french moulding planes?) made from mahogany with quite a thin, shop made iron. It would take a touch longer to make one than grinding a cutter for a multi plane, but If I needed to cut a profile and had to do it on a very low budget way that would be my preference.

    Jim, no offence meant. I learned to ride a bike fine and decide that multi planes are not something I much care for, bit like a bike with oval wheels......

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    I'll take the one that goes to 11.
    I love it when I agree with Patrick!

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