New LV Combo Plane

[Patrick Chase]

Afraid the cutters on MY Stanley 45 are about.....90 years old, and have been sharpened quite a few times BEFORE I even got them.

In that case that would improve the fit since the Stanley irons are LONGER. My set is 107 years old. The straight irons had been ground to h*ll, and I had to reverse the bevel on one of them, which knocked another 3/16" or so off. Those cutters all fit fine. The concern with Stanley irons is that when in factory-ground condition they are towards the UPPER length limit of the LV plane. I purposely checked a bunch of irons that had not been previously sharpened (which is basically the definition of "NOS"), and they all fit.

The two "testers" compared the way the cutters fit into BOTH planes. They almost ran out of threads on the veritas plane, trying to install a simple cutter from a #45's set. Again, they used a type 17 and a type 6 #45 and their cutters. YMMV

"Almost" only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. They fit, period. I'm sure LV were fully aware of the length of factory-ground Stanley irons when they designed the adjuster the way they did, and that's why the as-factory-ground Stanley iron are right up at but not over the limit.

The bolt referred to? Is the ones that thread into the sides of the cutter, either on the sliding stock or the main stock. Might want to slip back and check on that as well....or did you miss that little detail...since it is what Veritas calls that bolt.

The Stanley doesn't even *have* that bolt. So the complaint here is that an added useful feature doesn't work with a small number of 3rd party blades? Wow, that's some drawback.

The drawback that I cited (tensioner screw too far from registration face with the #10 and #32) is actually far more serious btw.

EDIT: It may be that Stanley widened the shafts of those two irons later in the production run. Can you please measure the width your #10 (1/8" plough iron) just below the slot/hole/whatever? Also is yours constant width from edge to slot/hole, or does it get wider like the narrower Veritas irons.

Not sure where YOU bought those two cutters at....you might want a refund for getting the wrong ones. IF you want, I can go and look at the ones I have ( I just used the #11 this week..)

I said #10 and #32, not #11. The #11 has a slot and fits fine in the LV plane. If you have a basic 45 cutter set then you don't even have the #32, but I was being thorough for the benefit of others. Please read carefully before you reply.

There IS one cutter by Stanley, that has no notch, as it is shorter than the normal cutters. The pin will push on the end of that. And, I just went and checked the 1/8" cutter and the #11 3/16" cutters. The 1/8" cutter was too narrow to make a notch for the pin.

Even nhplaneparts has no idea WHY there are cutters with holes, instead of slots....

The TWO (not one) Stanley cutters in question are so narrow (both have 1/8" shanks) that there wouldn't be enough metal on one side of a slot to resist retraction force when the blade is under tension. Using a hole instead of a slot provides support on both sides and fixes the issue. I suspect that's also why the 45 and 55 use a pin instead of a tab for adjustment in the first place.

EDIT: Added question about later-production 10 and 32 irons. See "EDIT" above.

[Jim Koepke]

Even nhplaneparts has no idea WHY there are cutters with holes, instead of slots....

My recollection is this was how the type 5 and maybe type 6 cutters were made. A few of my #45 cutters are this way. It is easier to install a cutter into the plane with a notch than it is a drilled hole. Stanley designers were likely quick to figure out this little upgrade.

After reading the review on LumberJocks, it seems there are a few features on the Veritas to improve on a 130 year old design.

One significant point made in the review seems to be aimed at those who do not want the experience of finding and rehabilitating an old tool. The Veritas is the one combination plane to offer peace of mind into their buying experience. Many folks are like me and love to tinker with things. Many more like to open a box without worries and put their new purchase to work.

The #45 is for those who enjoy the smell of rust and like to tinker. The VCP is for those who do not even want to be bothered with sharpening a blade when the plane arrives.

The Veritas Combination Plane is simply a modern day version of a good old tool. It benefits from modern manufacturing technology and improvements.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

The author, who does not own the Veritas, ended up preferring it to the Stanley and stating that he would like one. His comments were almost completely in favour of the Veritas ... and I think he was surprised, since he went in skeptical.

I would, however, hardly view his review as full - he did not use most if the blades. I, on the other hand, have not only used all, but have extensive time on both planes. I am in a position to make first hand comments.
Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Steven, I'm going to be brief - I suggest that you re-read that review. The author, who does not own the Veritas, ended up preferring it to the Stanley and stating that he would like one. His comments were almost completely in favour of the Veritas ... and I think he was surprised, since he went in skeptical.

I would, however, hardly view his review as full - he did not use most if the blades. I, on the other hand, have not only used all, but have extensive time on both planes. I am in a position to make first hand comments. You have probably not even seen the Veritas in the flesh, nevermind handled one. That is a recipe for prejudice.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hey Derek, please feel free to correct anything I got wrong above. I've only had the LV plane for a few days and may have missed something.

Also it appears that the #10 and #32 irons changed in design from a hole to a slot somewhere between 1910 (my examples) and the 1920s (Steven's). The newer irons are may be more compatible with the LV plane.

[Jim Koepke]

The Stanley doesn't even *have* that bolt. So the complaint here is that an added useful feature doesn't work with a small number of 3rd party blades? Wow, that's some drawback.

An early version of a similar feature does appear on the Stanley #55. There is a screw mounted on the main body on the right hand side near the handle. It screws into the adjustable skate to provide stability for a blade when working on a face that is at an angle, other than 90º, to the fences. The fences remain fixed and the blade is adjusted deeper in the work on successive strokes. The screw keeps the blade from moving laterally with the blade locking mechanism slightly loose. This screw is often missing. If my recollection is correct it is a 10-28 thread and has a head like the other three locking screws on the plane. (depth stop lock and the rod keeper screws on the main body)

This feature of the #55 hit me like a flash during my experimentation with stopped cuts using the #45.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

My recollection is this was how the type 5 and maybe type 6 cutters were made. A few of my #45 cutters are this way. It is easier to install a cutter into the plane with a notch than it is a drilled hole. Stanley designers were likely quick to figure out this little upgrade.

The slots on Stanley irons are just under 1/8" deep, which would leave the #10 (1/8 plough) and #16 with very little metal to support the top of the slot. Do you happen to know how they addressed that in later variants? Did they reverse-taper the shafts of later iterations of those irons to make them wider at the slot?

[Patrick Chase]

An early version of a similar feature does appear on the Stanley #55. There is a screw mounted on the main body on the right hand side near the handle. It screws into the adjustable skate to provide stability for a blade when working on a face that is at an angle, other than 90º, to the fences. The fences remain fixed and the blade is adjusted deeper in the work on successive strokes. The screw keeps the blade from moving laterally with the blade locking mechanism slightly loose. This screw is often missing. If my recollection is correct it is a 10-28 thread and has a head like the other three locking screws on the plane. (depth stop lock and the rod keeper screws on the main body)

This feature of the #55 hit me like a flash during my experimentation with stopped cuts using the #45.

My c. 1910 #55 example doesn't have that, so it must have been added in later types. The only threaded hole going straight into the main skate from the right in the area you cite is the slitter clamp.

That does indeed sound very useful.

[Jim Koepke]

The slots on Stanley irons are just under 1/8" deep, which would leave the #10 (1/8 plough) and #16 with very little metal to support the top of the slot. Do you happen to know how they addressed that in later variants? Did they reverse-taper the shafts of later iterations of those irons to make them wider at the slot?

I would have to go out and look at my sets of blades. I do know the early way was a hole. My recollection is one or more of my wider irons also have holes in them instead of slots.

I was about to look for a type study on the #45. Not sure as to where my book on the subject may have gotten off.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

My c. 1910 #55 example doesn't have that, so it must have been added in later types. The only threaded hole going straight into the main skate from the right in the area you cite is the slitter clamp.

That does indeed sound very useful.

I think this came along when the fence lock bolt was moved to lock one of the rods instead of the screw or shortly after that. Maybe around the same time as the switch from long spurs to the clover leaf spurs.

#55 Special Screw.jpg

The screw storage spot is right behind the slitter clamp.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

I think this came along when the fence lock bolt was moved to lock one of the rods instead of the screw or shortly after that. Maybe around the same time as the switch from long spurs to the clover leaf spurs.

#55 Special Screw.jpg

The screw storage spot is right behind the slitter clamp.

jtk

Thanks! Mine doesn't have that screw behind the slitter clamp and does have the long spurs, so that sounds about right.

[steven c newman]

I am merely stating THEIR results. I am more than happy to be using my combo plane.....even if it is a "young" 92 years old.

[Patrick Chase]

Stepping away from the debate for a sec. I do have a few quibbles with the Veritas Combination plane. On balance it's an excellent tool, but no design is ever perfect (certainly not any that I had a hand in) and this one is no exception.

• As noted in my reply to Steven's post, the clamp screw is centered about 3/16" from the right-side blade registration surface, which means that it has marginal engagement with blades that have 1/8" shanks. That includes my samples of the #10 and #32. The Stanley "cone clamp" is better in this respect as it provides engagement all the way across, though it has binding issues that the LV doesn't. On balance I think that both designs make reasonable tradeoffs, and which to choose is a subjective preference.
• My sample of the 55 has a 50 deg bed angle, and I find that it's slightly better than the LV in terms of tearout. If I were designing a combo from scratch I think I'd go with a slightly higher-angle bed, though obviously cutter geometry (rounds being round, etc) limits how far you can take that. I don't know if all 55s are 50 deg or if it's something Stanley varied within the production run, but it's certainly beneficial in some circumstances.
• As others have noted it would be nice if the shafts were the same diameter as the 45 or 55 so that we could use accessories like the cam stops (note that the cam stop is single-shaft, so we wouldn't need the spacing to be the same). The lighter/thinner rods are beneficial in themselves, though, so this is again a tradeoff.

One the plus side it's beautifully machined, tightly toleranced, and basically ready to use as delivered, unlike older planes. The skates and fence all lock down in parallel with minimal effort. As am example, the 55's fences tend to get "cocked" if you're not careful because the tension screws push them in opposite directions on each of the two shafts, but the Veritas has no such vices.

[Patrick Chase]

So...why are you taking this all out on the "Messenger" is it because the "news" is different than the company line of reality? Nor do I take being called a LIAR lying down.

You're the one posting apparently cherry-picked parts (per Derek) of that review as fact on *this* forum. You also didn't provide sufficient information to find the review in question, for example the author's name. That makes you more than just a "messenger" as far as this discussion goes.

Pointing out that somebody repeated something misleading as fact without verifying it is not the same thing as calling them a liar. People are wrong for non-malicious reasons all the time.

[steven c newman]

Veritas Salesperson: Yes, I have indeed read that review...several times....now, have your employers FIX the nickers....

The reason they did have the cutters, is a LACK of shipping of those cutters....IF they HAD been shipped ( like a normal supplier would) they would have reviewed them all. They had all afternoon to try both planes....couldn't someone at least ship what was ordered?

Whether I have or have NOT "handled" the newest and LATEst toy, is NOT a part of THEIR review. I suggest you take up your sales pitch with them.

Reviewer did like SOME of the features.....and is trying to add them to one of his 17 stanley 45s.....

[Simon MacGowen]

Veritas Salesperson: Yes, I have indeed read that review...several times....now, have your employers FIX the nickers....

..

Shouldn't say that, or it would make you a Stanley Spokesperson....

Simon