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Thread: Ancient Tools - Divider & Compass

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  1. #1
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    Ancient Tools - Divider & Compass

    Judging from the responses to a previous post about Crucible-brand dividers, I believe a post about how to use dividers and compass would be beneficial.

    let's begin the discussion with a basic technique. I encourage others to add their techniques to this thread. I will try to add more later.

    I learned how to use dividers/compass for carpentry and woodworking as a boy from my father, and from carpenters and other craftsman on jobsites over the years. But I learned the most from drafting classes in college. This was before drafting heads, digital protractors, dot-matrix printers, and CAD. Even lettering was done by hand or using plastic/metal templates. The professors were justifiably proud of their hard-earned skills and the beautiful and precise documents they could deftly produce.

    The first lesson we were taught was this: Never lay the tape or rule or scale on the drawing/workpiece and mark directly using pencil or pen, but instead use dividers to first measure the required distance on the scale/ruler, indexing the divider's points in the engraved lines, and then use those same dividers to transfer and mark the distance onto the workpiece or paper.

    The intuitive, but inefficient, way most careful people do the job is lay the ruler or yardstick or tape measure on the workpiece, index one end (a careful man will always "burn" 1" or 12" and not index directly on the tool's end), locate the target distance on the measuring tool, and make a mark. But if he is trying to layout an irregular distance like 2-3/64" (= 52 (51.99) mm), for instance, a pencil's lead or pen's tip is too wide for precision, so he will use a scribe or marking knife. To be more precise, a careful man will tip the scale or ruler on its edge, kneel down so he can see the scale's/ruler's marks clearly, fit the scribe point or knife tip into the engraved line on scale/ruler, and then transfer that to the workpiece, paper, or story stick with a quick "tick." The problem is that the far end of the ruler/scale at the point he is measuring from may wiggle out of alignment messing up his precision. Or the scribe/knife point may shift while making the "tick." With practice, these tendencies can be overcome, but clearly this method is time consuming and the results may be questionable.

    But if he uses dividers, he can fit/index their points quickly and precisely into the engraved lines in scale/ruler at each end of the measurement, first time everytime, and without kneeling or squinting or pressing down, or worrying about wiggling and shifting. Once he has set the dividers to the required distance, he can fit one of the sharp points precisely into the index hole, or onto the line he is measuring from, and then use the other point to make a precise scratch or hole in the workpiece, which can be used again for future layout reference.

    This works with dividers or trammel heads.

    Standard dividers are quickest, but a locking divider with screw adjustment is easier to adjust precisely and is more likely to retain the measured distance with repeated usage. You will find when drafting or doing layout that you repeat some distances frequently. Having 2 or 3 locking dividers set to these distances close at hand will allow you to layout those distances quickly and accurately without the need to refer to scale/ruler.

    The quality of your scale/ruler becomes important when attempting precision layout. A high-quality, professional-grade scale or ruler must of course be of proper length and uniform width and thickness, be free of twist, and have accurate lines. Be careful to procure one that will pass these 3 simple quality tests, not an easy task nowadays. Pay attention that the ruler/scale you use has engraved lines of uniform depth and width to properly index divider and scribe points, and marking knife tips.

    These principles apply to story sticks as well.

    Give it a try.

    Stan

    PS: We should also create similar threads that deal with other ancient and venerable tools such as the square, plumb bob, and various versions thereof.
    Last edited by Stanley Covington; 09-12-2017 at 7:26 AM.

  2. #2
    Good stuff - thank you Stan!

    (I, for one, would like to read more about using a plumb bob.)

    Fred

  3. #3
    Thanks Stan,

    ken

  4. #4
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    Good start Stan. As a divider and story stick user and a believer that many errors are made by transferring measurements with a rule or a tape I'm in for a discussion.
    Jim

  5. #5
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    Here is one good thing. Dividers don't have cumulative errors as rules or tapes. Since its point to point it does not matter which set of dividers you use to pick up a measurement.
    Jim

  6. #6
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    I think that what Stanley outlined above is a far more useful purpose for dividers than the trial and error approximation technique discussed in the other thread. It is far more often, for me anyway, that I know the dimension desired and need to transfer it to my workpiece (or tablesaw sled for example). Using the divider in the outlined fashion would certainly improve the accuracy of my work. Thanks Stan

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I think that what Stanley outlined above is a far more useful purpose for dividers than the trial and error approximation technique discussed in the other thread. It is far more often, for me anyway, that I know the dimension desired and need to transfer it to my workpiece (or tablesaw sled for example). Using the divider in the outlined fashion would certainly improve the accuracy of my work. Thanks Stan
    Here is an example where a trial and error technique is helpful. Suppose you want to lay out a turned finial to carve seven flutes on the finial. In 78 seconds I was able to divide the finial into sevenths to within a thousandth of an inch. No ruler required.

    Alternatively I could measure the diameter (1.326), calculate the circumference (4.166), divide by seven (0.595), and try and wrap the tape measure around the finial. very sloppy.

    Or I could try and calculate the side of a heptagon that can be inscribed in the 1.326 diameter circle and then set the dividers to this length and then mark it off with the dividers. But the dividers sink into the wood a little, so even here you might have to make an adjustment after a trial. This is a lot of work just to avoid having skills.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Here is an example where a trial and error technique is helpful. Suppose you want to lay out a turned finial to carve seven flutes on the finial. In 78 seconds I was able to divide the finial into sevenths to within a thousandth of an inch. No ruler required.

    Alternatively I could measure the diameter (1.326), calculate the circumference (4.166), divide by seven (0.595), and try and wrap the tape measure around the finial. very sloppy.

    Or I could try and calculate the side of a heptagon that can be inscribed in the 1.326 diameter circle and then set the dividers to this length and then mark it off with the dividers. But the dividers sink into the wood a little, so even here you might have to make an adjustment after a trial. This is a lot of work just to avoid having skills.
    Thanks, Warren. A perfect example of real-world speed, precision, and simplicity.

    This is another technique every serious woodworker and stone mason needs to know, and one that is applicable in many situations, not just round work.

    Stan

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    ...... a lot of work just to avoid having skills.


    Hey, it's the American way!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Here is an example where a trial and error technique is helpful. Suppose you want to lay out a turned finial to carve seven flutes on the finial. In 78 seconds I was able to divide the finial into sevenths to within a thousandth of an inch. No ruler required.

    Alternatively I could measure the diameter (1.326), calculate the circumference (4.166), divide by seven (0.595), and try and wrap the tape measure around the finial. very sloppy.

    Or I could try and calculate the side of a heptagon that can be inscribed in the 1.326 diameter circle and then set the dividers to this length and then mark it off with the dividers. But the dividers sink into the wood a little, so even here you might have to make an adjustment after a trial. This is a lot of work just to avoid having skills.
    Of course, there are other ways to accomplish this. One involves the use of another measuring instrument, a protractor, and measuring the degrees of rotation from one location to the next - in your case 360/7 = 51.42 degrees - a strange number of course, and even more difficult to mark onto the part. The other means being to use a 'flexible' measuring tape (not your typical tape measure tape of course), measure the circumference, and then divide by 7 to get the increments.

    Using the divider as you described seems to be a great solution however, although I doubt your one thousandth of an inch accuracy, I do get the gist of the method. It would seem that this method also has significant inaccuracies - how do you know the points landed exactly (within a thousandth of an inch).

    All cases involve inaccuracies - its just a question of how close do you need to get.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    Of course, there are other ways to accomplish this. One involves the use of another measuring instrument, a protractor, and measuring the degrees of rotation from one location to the next - in your case 360/7 = 51.42 degrees - a strange number of course, and even more difficult to mark onto the part. The other means being to use a 'flexible' measuring tape (not your typical tape measure tape of course), measure the circumference, and then divide by 7 to get the increments.

    Using the divider as you described seems to be a great solution however, although I doubt your one thousandth of an inch accuracy, I do get the gist of the method. It would seem that this method also has significant inaccuracies - how do you know the points landed exactly (within a thousandth of an inch).

    All cases involve inaccuracies - its just a question of how close do you need to get.
    Something tells me you have never tried the methods you suggest.

    If my dividers were .001 off, then after seven repetitions, going around the turning, it would be .007 off, something I could easily see. Reminds me of the time I marked off 1/32 on a board with a marking gauge, then counted shavings until I got down to the gauge line. Maybe more accurate than trying to measure a very thin shaving with a micrometer. They used to teach this stuff in school.

  12. #12
    Warren, good technical writing there! And a good method .....until the bearings on the dividers get worn out!!!

  13. #13
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    Working with story sticks and dividers is different than working with rulers or tapes or other marked devices. When working with dividers you don't have to talk about fractions. When dividing for drawers or spaces I just use the dividers and story stick. I don't care if it is a measurement of 4 and 13/64 it's just evenly divided very accurately. No adding or subtracting fractions or trying to read 64ths off a rule. Mark your story stick and your good to go. Again YMMV. That is just part of it. If you need better than a single point or a knife line your getting into machinist work, not woodworking.
    Jim

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    Working with story sticks and dividers is different than working with rulers or tapes or other marked devices. When working with dividers you don't have to talk about fractions. When dividing for drawers or spaces I just use the dividers and story stick. I don't care if it is a measurement of 4 and 13/64 it's just evenly divided very accurately. No adding or subtracting fractions or trying to read 64ths off a rule. Mark your story stick and your good to go. Again YMMV. That is just part of it. If you need better than a single point or a knife line your getting into machinist work, not woodworking.
    Jim
    Count me in your camp. I started out using tapes and rules, but when I migrated to the use of dividers and story sticks, my rate of mistakes and errors diminished dramatically. A teacher once told me that numbers are not real, they're only one interpretation of reality. There are many times I build things with no idea what the measurements are in numerical terms. I know this is the neander forum, but after abandoning numbers as much as possible for layout, the next step for me was making quick setup blocks from the story stick (or using the story stick itself) for setting up machine cuts.

    This is an interesting and informative thread. I was not aware of gauging the dividers in the engraved lines of a high quality rule. This would explain one reason why high quality dividers with sharp, even points are important.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Warren, good technical writing there! And a good method .....until the bearings on the dividers get worn out!!!
    Good one Mel. If that happens to me I just break out my forked branch with the animal sinew and porcupine quills and keep going. Just like Alley Oop

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