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Thread: Homemade Stone Pond

  1. #1
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    Homemade Stone Pond

    Would you all mind sharing your pictures/details of stone ponds that you made?

    I been lusting after the Shapton for quite a while.

    What custom features have you done that outshine the Shapton pond? Have had the LV one forever. Too flimsy and high walled.

    No running water in shop.

    I been using a baking sheet forever.

    Thanks
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  2. #2
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    Two 18.5 cup containers, one for soaking, one for rinsing, one lid to contain the sharpening mess, one lid for whatever. When not in use I store the stones in the containers.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by John Schtrumpf; 09-18-2017 at 3:48 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Ragan View Post
    Would you all mind sharing your pictures/details of stone ponds that you made? ....
    I have a Suehiro tray, from Stu's Sigma Water Stone set combo, and use it when I use water stones. I can't say it has much to recommend it, other than being on hand and better than nothing.

    I remembered seeing a fancy one on a blog or in an article, but didn't have it book marked. Googling "Custom Sharpening Pond" gives a lot of hits and found the one I remembered. It was on Pop Wood by William Ng and looks really nice (to me.) https://www.popularwoodworking.com/a...harpening-pond. I think way fancier than I want for myself, but definitely deluxe.

    Kitchen Knife folks seem to often choose 4" deep hotel pans with a sink bridge spanning the width and holding the stone in use. E.g. Hotel Pan @Amazon. You have room to soak your other stones, water to ladle over the stone you're using, and a basin to capture the mess.

    I'll stay tuned, nothing I've seen really captures my fancy. Yet.

  4. #4
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    My water stone set up consists of a plastic storage box bought when they were on sale, shoe box size. An automotive floor mat provides support on the table. There is no running water in the shop so water comes in via a one gallon milk jug and a one quart spray bottle. When it gets below freezing in the shop, there is a bench across the shop with an oilstone sharpening station.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #5
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    I use the one from Lee Valley. I like it well enough. I like the clamps for the stones. Everything cleans up easy with it.

    I've thought of making a sharpening station at some point. Something similar to what LN sells but maybe mobile. I was thinking maybe try to recess the Lee Valley pond into the top of it.

    PHM

  6. #6
    I soak mine in a tall plastic Folgers coffee can. The stones sit straight up in the can, and I can get three or four of them in it at a time. I don't permanently soak my stones, but soak them 20-30 minutes before use.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by David Ragan View Post
    Would you all mind sharing your pictures/details of stone ponds that you made?

    I been lusting after the Shapton for quite a while.

    What custom features have you done that outshine the Shapton pond? Have had the LV one forever. Too flimsy and high walled.

    No running water in shop.

    I been using a baking sheet forever.

    Thanks
    David,

    Suck it up and spend the bucks. The Shapton pond and stone holders while expensive work well with most stones. I haven't found anything better.

    ken

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Ragan View Post
    Would you all mind sharing your pictures/details of stone ponds that you made?

    I been lusting after the Shapton for quite a while.

    What custom features have you done that outshine the Shapton pond? Have had the LV one forever. Too flimsy and high walled.

    No running water in shop.

    I been using a baking sheet forever.

    Thanks
    Not exactly sure what you are looking for, but there are two kinds of "ponds" I am aware of.

    The first kind of pond is for stone storage. I am in favor of storing man-made stones in water full time, so long as there is no freezing risk. Natural stones, and some of the sillier synthetic stones, may delaminate or dissolve if stored in water long-term. I have tried many methods for storing stones wet over the years, but have settled on a rectangular plastic bucket with a bale handle (kind of like a small mop bucket) with a piece of rubber laid over the top to keep out dust and bugs, and to reduce evaporation. A wooden bucket would work too, but I suspect a metal bucket made from anything but nickle stainless would not be optimal. I stand the stones on end leaning against the bucket's sides. I try to keep stones of different grits from touching each other. It will hold 12 or 14 stones. I always use two stones of each grit when sharpening, using one stone to flatten the other constantly, so I need a minimum of 6 stones sopping wet and always ready to rock-n-roll.

    The problem with long-term wet storage is algae and mosquitoes. I add some borax powder (20 Mule Team) to the water and stir it until it dissolves. Problem solved. This also makes the water slightly alkaline which helps to prevent rust on my blades. Washing soda works well too. Some people add a few drops of caustic soda (lye) to the water. I have also used Simple Green D-Pro 5 industrial germicide and cleaner for this purpose. No bugs or algae, but it doesn't do anything for rust prevention.

    Since the bucket is not sealed with a tight lid, chlorine in the water evaporates while the borax remains, which is a good thing. Borax is more pervasive (effective longer) than washing soda or lye in my opinion.

    The second kind of pond is for sharpening. Typically this is a wooden or plastic trough with a board spanning the opening upon which the sharpening stone is placed when in use. Water can be scooped out of the pond below to wet or rinse the stone, and mud and dirty water that comes off the stone freely drips into the pond without making too much of a mess. I have made and owned these types of ponds before. The fanciest I made was of hinoki wood with a soldered copper liner. It was beautiful and never leaked, but ultimately I decided it was silly, and gave it away to a lady that wanted to use it for a windowsill planter. I have also used a rectangular high-impact plastic container (6" deep?) with a tight lid that can also be used for storage/transportation. It was more practical than the wooden pond. I still use the container for stone storage and transportation, but not for sharpening anymore.

    One problem with ponds for sharpening, in my opinion, is that they are too bulky and wetter than necessary. But the biggest problem is that, unless one is very strict in the order of sharpening stones used, or change the water between different blades, the water in the pond quickly becomes contaminated with the grit of rougher stones which will then contaminate finer stones. This means that if one scoops water from the pond to wet or rinse stones, the grit from a previously used rougher stone will end up on the finer stone. Unavoidable. You don't think this is a problem? Ask yourself why the water quickly becomes opaque. That ain't shampoo, friends. Then notice the mud that settles in the bottom and on the walls of the pond. What is that if not grit?

    You might want to use a powerful loupe or microscope and notice the widely varying width/depth of scratches the result from using this contaminated pond water versus clean water. Of course, the process of sharpening is to use one stone to make one set of uniform scratches that abrade the steel, and then use another stone to remove those scratches replacing them with another uniform set of narrower/shallower scratches. Every deep/wide scratch that remains after you are done using the finer stone is a rough spot and discontinuity in the finished edge that will be time consuming, and relatively expensive to remove using the finer stone. Why would I intentionally put rougher grit on my finer stone? Because I want to waste time and money? Insanity.

    If you have a sink in your shop, a board spanning the sink is ideal. Clean water is available from the tap. I have never had this luxury. My solution is to spread a piece of roofing rubber (fiberglass reinforced 2'x2') on my workbench, place a stone holder directly on this rubber, and sharpen away. The stone is already wet, and I do not need to add much water.

    I use a plastic lab wash bottle to add water and rinse blades/stones. Very little mud and mess. I do not like spray bottles because they get scatter water all over and on places and blades I would prefer stay dry. I use newspaper to soak up water if necessary, and paper towels to wipe mud off blades.

    I use distilled water in this bottle when I can, and dissolve some borax powder in it. Washing soda works just as well. It makes the stones cut a little better, and prevents rust. I know guys that add a drop of lye to the water in their ponds and bottles for this purpose. Lye is a little too caustic for my taste, but there is no doubt it works, and if bought as a bulk cleaning supply, is very cheap.

    The advantage of the rubber sheet is that it is lightweight, cheap, absolutely waterproof, never spills, is always at the right height, can be stored by rolling it up, fits inside a toolbox or toolbag, and will work absolutely anywhere from my workbench, to the coffee table in front of the TV, or a stack of gypboard at a jobsite.

    I am not in favor of "sharpening stations." They take too much valuable space, leave the stones exposed to grit and dust, and let the stones dry out. My "sharpening station" is a bucket and rubber sheet that can be setup quickly anywhere, and moved out of the way even quicker.

    2 cents.
    Last edited by Stanley Covington; 09-20-2017 at 7:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Stone storage is those 12"x 4" x 5" tall, narrow Tupperware containers...one stone per container and a drop of Dawn detergent. I clean the water out when I do the hide glue pots (weekly or whenever a student is stationary without a tool or work in-hand (I use only one stone - the Norton 8000 - on a routine basis, but the 4000 is handy for prep work on tools). The stone holder is 13" x 16" x 1/2" ply with 3/4" square edge and lower lip tacked onto the ply, then slathered in two coats of West System 105/205 marine epoxy. The supports are then tacked onto the ply with galvanized brads with a couple dots of clear RTV silicone to seal that joint. The diamond stone sits on the sharpening station anti-slip pad, and is the other stone in the two stone system we use for routine edge maintenance. I'll sometimes use the setup on the main woodworking bench for demos, but usually at the sharpening station behind the go-bar deck,

    WaterstoneHolder2.JPGWaterstoneHolder1.JPG

    Still leak free after 20 plus years. Every six months or so, I grab it and scrub down in the sink in the laundry room...think it might be about due.

    With students and other luthiers in the shop 4-5 days a week, it's not feasible to set up then break down for routine edge maintenance, so I dedicate about 10 sf to the job, but will likely move and slightly enlarge the area to colocate the other grinder (1725 rpm with CBN wheels) with the Tormek. Getting all the little stuff up on tool boards over the work surface helps, and I'll be able to do that with the move across the shop to the current dead space behind the cyclone.
    Last edited by Todd Stock; 09-20-2017 at 7:10 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    David,

    Suck it up and spend the bucks. The Shapton pond and stone holders while expensive work well with most stones. I haven't found anything better.

    ken
    Ken, that is kinda what I wanted to hear.

    I guess the most important qualities in such an implement;
    1) fits work area & stones fit in it
    2) does not leak (unless youre OK w that)
    3) no skid

    Anything else?

    Is there anything that you don't like about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Stock View Post
    Stone storage is those 12"x 4" x 5" tall, narrow Tupperware containers...one stone per container and a drop of Dawn detergent. I clean the water out when I do the hide glue pots (weekly or whenever a student is stationary without a tool or work in-hand (I use only one stone - the Norton 8000 - on a routine basis, but the 4000 is handy for prep work on tools). The stone holder is 13" x 16" x 1/2" ply with 3/4" square edge and lower lip tacked onto the ply, then slathered in two coats of West System 105/205 marine epoxy. The supports are then tacked onto the ply with galvanized brads with a couple dots of clear RTV silicone to seal that joint. The diamond stone sits on the sharpening station anti-slip pad, and is the other stone in the two stone system we use for routine edge maintenance. I'll sometimes use the setup on the main woodworking bench for demos, but usually at the sharpening station behind the go-bar deck,

    WaterstoneHolder2.JPGWaterstoneHolder1.JPG

    Still leak free after 20 plus years. Every six months or so, I grab it and scrub down in the sink in the laundry room...think it might be about due.

    With students and other luthiers in the shop 4-5 days a week, it's not feasible to set up then break down for routine edge maintenance, so I dedicate about 10 sf to the job, but will likely move and slightly enlarge the area to colocate the other grinder (1725 rpm with CBN wheels) with the Tormek. Getting all the little stuff up on tool boards over the work surface helps, and I'll be able to do that with the move across the shop to the current dead space behind the cyclone.
    Todd, is that a Sinclair Benchrest bag I see in the one photo?



    Stanley-thank you for the treatise on the subject.

    The problems w putting coarse grits on a finer stone from waste water are just.....I don't know-it's a totally avoidable problem that can totally sabotage your work.
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  11. #11
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    This may be something to look at, not so much the cabinet but the pond itself...


    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    This may be something to look at, not so much the cabinet but the pond itself...


    Always amazed by what people will do to get a video on YouTube. If you like this design, the materials used, the construction techniques employed, and the author's tablesaw safety procedures, please build it, use it fulltime for year, and let us know how it goes. I doubt the sharpening station will last that long, but you'll probably still have enough fingers left to type.

  13. #13
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    His approach didn't do much for me either but it is the idea, YT is more about ideas for me not technique or execution, there is another thread discussing that already so I will leave it alone.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  14. #14
    Protek, but good eye. Makes a good rest for instrument necks as well as sighting in latest project.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by David Ragan View Post
    Ken, that is kinda what I wanted to hear.

    I guess the most important qualities in such an implement;
    1) fits work area & stones fit in it
    2) does not leak (unless youre OK w that)
    3) no skid

    Anything else?

    Is there anything that you don't like about it?



    Todd, is that a Sinclair Benchrest bag I see in the one photo?



    Stanley-thank you for the treatise on the subject.

    The problems w putting coarse grits on a finer stone from waste water are just.....I don't know-it's a totally avoidable problem that can totally sabotage your work.
    David,

    The Shapton stone pond does not leak, is heavy enough that it does not move, and is easy to clean....I will stick mine in the dishwasher when it needs cleaning. At different times I've used it with both Ark oil stones and water stones. The stone holders work well with most of either type stone. The one exception is Japanese Natural water stones because of their variation in size and shape.

    ken

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