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Thread: Tool rest for reaching 10+ inches away from the post?

  1. #1
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    Question Tool rest for reaching 10+ inches away from the post?

    For those of you who turn pieces large enough that your tool is at times 10 or more inches away from the post of your tool rest, what is the best tool rest you have found for this?

    What do turners use for this anyways?

    The deepest-reaching tool rest I have is the Robust 14-inch J-bar tool rest, but I only feel comfortable reaching about 10 inches deep into a turning while using it. So, I'm looking for a good tool rest with even greater reaching capacity.

    Thank you.

  2. Try this on for size. Tom Zepada makes a specialized offset tool rest for reaching into the bottom of bowls.............here is a youtube video where he demonstrates it. You can order if you are interested.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEOJ5ayF-0
    Last edited by Roger Chandler; 09-20-2017 at 10:18 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Gunsolley View Post
    For those of you who turn pieces large enough that your tool is at times 10 or more inches away from the post of your tool rest, what is the best tool rest you have found for this?

    Thank you.
    Here's my custom solution:

    IMG_1517.jpgIMG_1518.jpg
    28" wide. Turn it into the bowl and you get lots of reach. Still planning on making a curved version, but my blacksmith friend is busy.
    Drilling all the holes was a PITA.

  4. #4
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    I had a large bowl once that caused a problem with my 5/8" bowl gouge off a straight tool rest bar down in the lower corner. My initial solution was to buy a 3/4" Thompson gouge and 24" handle. That did better, but then I had a "J" tool rest bar made. The curved tool rest was definitely less expensive, but both are used at times.

  5. #5
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    Not one rest will do all, I made a couple of large J rests, a left and a right J that cover some of the problems of reaching in farther, but they have their own problems where the tool or handle will run into the rest itself.

    I have fought of welding a heavier T bar onto a post to get deeper and have enough strength to not start vibrating when reaching in all the way, haven’t needed one real bad and so I will make it when I need it

    30 inch bowl.jpg


    Added, the J rests I made are from solid 1” steel rod and vibration has never been a problem with these.
    Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 09-22-2017 at 2:07 PM.
    Have fun and take care

  6. #6
    Just an opinion;

    J-bar rests should have a bit of a stop welded to the end to prevent the tool (gouge or scraper) from slipping of the end when working down in the bottom.

    It the tool does slip off the end of the J, the tool goes past center, gets picked up by the upwards motion of the piece on the opposite side of center, and then gets slammed down onto the rest after being carried over the top. Any body parts between the tool and tool rest will carry scars after the memorable event.

    Another opinion; the J-bar should be made of stock at least as large as the tool rest post to minimize vibration. Mine is made of 1" hydraulic cylinder rod (1045 heat treated) that allows for about 9" or 10" and starts to vibrate on medium or heavier cuts when working near the end. If doing over, 1-1/4" would be used with a gusset between the post and the rest.

    A captured system is probably safer for bowls once they are hollowed more than 7" or 8" deep.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Miner View Post
    Just an opinion;

    J-bar rests should have a bit of a stop welded to the end to prevent the tool (gouge or scraper) from slipping of the end when working down in the bottom.

    It the tool does slip off the end of the J, the tool goes past center, gets picked up by the upwards motion of the piece on the opposite side of center, and then gets slammed down onto the rest after being carried over the top. Any body parts between the tool and tool rest will carry scars after the memorable event.

    Another opinion; the J-bar should be made of stock at least as large as the tool rest post to minimize vibration. Mine is made of 1" hydraulic cylinder rod (1045 heat treated) that allows for about 9" or 10" and starts to vibrate on medium or heavier cuts when working near the end. If doing over, 1-1/4" would be used with a gusset between the post and the rest.

    A captured system is probably safer for bowls once they are hollowed more than 7" or 8" deep.
    I do agree with the thought that a captured system would be the better way to go Dale, especially if the piece is a more narrow or vase like piece, not many bowls are 10 inch deep I think
    Have fun and take care

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Van Der Loo View Post
    I do agree with the thought that a captured system would be the better way to go Dale, especially if the piece is a more narrow or vase like piece, not many bowls are 10 inch deep I think

    Leo,

    I can't recall ever turning a bowl much over about 8 inches deep. I do know as they get much past about 5" or 6" the difficulty factor goes up exponentially.

    Also, as they get deeper, a bottom grind gouge becomes a must.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    Try this on for size. Tom Zepada makes a specialized offset tool rest for reaching into the bottom of bowls.............here is a youtube video where he demonstrates it. You can order if you are interested.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEOJ5ayF-0
    Great design! Thanks for mentioning this, Roger. In response to your reply, I watched the video and contacted Tom regarding these rests. He gave me the dimensions and pricing of his rests. Here they are for those of you who are interested:

    The 6" rest with 6" extension has an overall reach of 7 5/8" ($95)
    The 8" rest with 8" extension has an overall reach of 8 1/4" ($97)
    The 6" rest with 8 1/2" extension has an overall reach of 10" ($100)
    The 8" rest with 8 1/2" extension has an overall reach of 11 1/4" ($102)

    I like this design, because the flat part on the end, where you actually rest your tool when reaching deep, is much larger than what you find at the end of commercially available j-bars, and it is also more in line with the post which both offers added stability and allows this portion to be longer. So, I believe it would be a major advantage over a large j-bar and probably the best rest for reaching deep that I've come across this far and is available for purchase. It appears you'd be much more stable and have a larger area to work at the tip of the rest. I will probably order at least the large one that has the 11 1/4" reach. The smallest one will likely be next after that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Vogel View Post
    Here's my custom solution:

    IMG_1517.jpgIMG_1518.jpg
    28" wide. Turn it into the bowl and you get lots of reach. Still planning on making a curved version, but my blacksmith friend is busy.
    Drilling all the holes was a PITA.
    Wow, Olaf! Doesn't look like that would budge! What are the dimensions of the tubing, and the type of steel (if you have it)?

    Also, what do you use the holes for?

    I think I'd better go ahead and make a blacksmith friend of my own...
    Last edited by Chris Gunsolley; 09-23-2017 at 11:35 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Canfield View Post
    I had a large bowl once that caused a problem with my 5/8" bowl gouge off a straight tool rest bar down in the lower corner. My initial solution was to buy a 3/4" Thompson gouge and 24" handle. That did better, but then I had a "J" tool rest bar made. The curved tool rest was definitely less expensive, but both are used at times.
    I've got that 3/4" Thompson gouge as well, with the long metal handle. What a fine tool! And yes, I believe the large j-bar tool rests are currently the best option on the market for reaching deep. My favorite so far is the 14" robust j-bar. Tom Zepada's tool rest design looks like an improvement over a j-bar (see Roger's post above if you haven't). The interior curved bars are good as well, but when the inside of your bowls don't conform exactly to their contour, too large of a gap is created between the rest and the inside of the bowl. The j-bar at least allows you to target specific areas at the bottom and the wall as closely as you'd like, but they are limited because the part that you use when you reach deep--the area that is relatively flat on the end--is really short.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Miner View Post
    Just an opinion;

    J-bar rests should have a bit of a stop welded to the end to prevent the tool (gouge or scraper) from slipping of the end when working down in the bottom.

    It the tool does slip off the end of the J, the tool goes past center, gets picked up by the upwards motion of the piece on the opposite side of center, and then gets slammed down onto the rest after being carried over the top. Any body parts between the tool and tool rest will carry scars after the memorable event.

    Another opinion; the J-bar should be made of stock at least as large as the tool rest post to minimize vibration. Mine is made of 1" hydraulic cylinder rod (1045 heat treated) that allows for about 9" or 10" and starts to vibrate on medium or heavier cuts when working near the end. If doing over, 1-1/4" would be used with a gusset between the post and the rest.

    A captured system is probably safer for bowls once they are hollowed more than 7" or 8" deep.
    Dale,

    Great ideas for the j-bar design! If you're not going to make them and sell them yourself, I really wish you would forward this idea to the major manufacturers. (Robust would be nice. Oneway might be willing to make them and makes very fine, heavy duty rests when they do.)

    I think your point on incorporating the stop at the end of the j-bar is fantastic. At least it would tame your nerves when working near the tip, and this can go a long ways in keeping yourself calm and controlled through the duration of an entire turning session.

    Also, interesting detailed analysis of what could happen if the tool were to slip off the end. I've had it slip off the end before, but I wasn't forceful at that moment, which fortunately kept things under control. My experience was that I simply saw that once your tool accidentally kisses the other side of the bowl, it simply doesn't cut. Thankfully, I've dodged the disaster you've mentioned, but again, I was being very light on it at the moment and perhaps I got lucky. This doesn't happen any more, because these experiences taught me to no longer go all the way to the tip of the j-bar. So, that shortens the length of that flat portion I can use when it's already short. Great ideas for adding stability as well. Once we're designing rests specifically for reaching deep, the standards for the stock used have to change.

    By "captured system," you simply mean one with the stop at the end so that your tool is 'captured', correct?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Van Der Loo View Post
    Not one rest will do all, I made a couple of large J rests, a left and a right J that cover some of the problems of reaching in farther, but they have their own problems where the tool or handle will run into the rest itself.

    I have fought of welding a heavier T bar onto a post to get deeper and have enough strength to not start vibrating when reaching in all the way, haven’t needed one real bad and so I will make it when I need it

    30 inch bowl.jpg


    Added, the J rests I made are from solid 1” steel rod and vibration has never been a problem with these.
    I like your J-bar design, because it has a relatively long 'flat' portion on the end. Also, the design that you mention incorporating the t-bar at the end sounds like Tom Zepada's design that Roger mentioned above. What do you think of that tool rest design?

    Also, really cool bowl with those voids! What type of wood is that? And I'm assuming it's a burl?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Miner View Post
    Leo,
    Also, as they get deeper, a bottom grind gouge becomes a must.
    Large 1 1/2" scrapers work fantastic, either round or dome-ended depending on the radius of the bowl, cutting with the grain, which means from the center of the bottom of the bowl toward the outside when you're doing the bottom half of the inside of the bowl, for example. (That goes for any size of bowl.) This is what I use, and the main problem I've had has had nothing to do with the tool and everything to do with the tool rest slipping either once my tool is hanging a long ways off the rest or when I'm resting the tool toward the end of the rest. (That's why I replaced my stock banjo with the Oneway.)
    Last edited by Chris Gunsolley; 09-23-2017 at 11:48 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Gunsolley View Post
    I like your J-bar design, because it has a relatively long 'flat' portion on the end. Also, the design that you mention incorporating the t-bar at the end sounds like Tom Zepada's design that Roger mentioned above. What do you think of that tool rest design?

    Also, really cool bowl with those voids! What type of wood is that? And I'm assuming it's a burl?
    I had to go and look at that toolrest, I think my left J rest does very much what his does, and with the curve is easier to use in a smaller bottom, in a wider one I’d have to move the rest over to do a wider piece, with the Zapeda you won’t be able to get close to the bottom of a rounded bottom bowl, I suppose there is no perfect rest that covers all.

    The T bar I’m thinking about would have a U that can rotate in the end, a gouge would fit in there, captured more or less, so it would not fall of the rest, just an idea that might never see the light of day.

    The bowl is around 30 inches, a Manitoba Maple (Acer negundo) root burl, it was quite a job getting that to the stage (grown in gravel and sand) seen in that picture, before that it looked like this, and the semi finished shape in the last picture.

    Manitoba Maple, ready set go.jpg Root burl with gravel and rocks in it.jpg Acer Negund0 bowl.jpg
    Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 09-24-2017 at 2:56 PM.
    Have fun and take care

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