What does type mean for hand planes?

[Adam Herd]

I have been looking around ebay for hand planes specifically stanley number 5. I know what it means by number. A number 4 is a smoothing plane, number 5 is a do it all bench plane, a number 6 is bigger than a number 5 ect. But what does it mean if the plane is a number 5 type 16? other ones I see are number 4 1/2 type 5, number 5 type 11. What does type mean? Also is it worth it to buy a plane on ebay? most of them cost $25-$50 plus $10-$20 in shipping and you have to go through the work of restoring them. Or I could go on rockler and get a stanley number 5 for $75 with free shipping that I don't have to take the time to restore.

[Patrick Chase]

I have been looking around ebay for hand planes specifically stanley number 5. I know what it means by number. A number 4 is a smoothing plane, number 5 is a do it all bench plane, a number 6 is bigger than a number 5 ect. But what does it mean if the plane is a number 5 type 16? other ones I see are number 4 1/2 type 5, number 5 type 11. What does type mean?

It means that some folks with OCD and nothing better to do attempted to characterize all of the design variations that the Bailey-pattern plane underwent during its century-plus manufacturing run. The result is called the "type study". Here's one version on the Interwebs.

A type-11 plane would be from the early 1900s, and is considered to be a particularly well manufactured vintage.

Also is it worth it to buy a plane on ebay? most of them cost $25-$50 plus $10-$20 in shipping and you have to go through the work of restoring them. Or I could go on rockler and get a stanley number 5 for $75 with free shipping that I don't have to take the time to restore.

The #5 that you can get from Rockler today is very different from the classic #5. Most would consider the new one to be greatly inferior. Also, new Stanleys take a fair amount of preparation before they're usable, more so than many used planes. If you want something that's ready to go out of the box then you need to look at Veritas and Lie Nielsen, and those aren't $75 (they also still require some tuning to reach optimum performance, but they're at least usable out of the box).

[Jim Koepke]

If you want a type study with pictures check Johny Kleso's site:

http://www.rexmill.com/planes101/typing/typing.htm

My understanding is this was started by some folks including Patrick Leach who has his own site with what he calls "Patrick's Blood & Gore:

http://www.supertool.com

Both of those sites will tell you more than you really need to know, but they are a good read.

Most of my planes came from either ebay or a dozen other sources.

I haven't been much of a buyer in a long time. There used to be a lot more variation on ebay.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Much like a "Model Year" on the car you'd buy, the "Type" was a way to tell what model year(s) a plane was made, and when various "options" came and went.

[Phil Mueller]

Everyone has their preference, but I'd rather buy a rusty auction one than a new Stanley. They will both take a fair amount of work, for about the same amount of money. The risk on the auction site, is you may end up with issues that weren't described or pictured.
It's why lately, I've purchased from a reliable vintage tool dealer like Patrick Leach. You pay a little more, but you know exactly what you're getting.

[Dave Parkis]

IMHO, $25-$50 for a #5 that you'll need to clean/tune is way too much. There are several people here (myself included) who sell planes that have been cleaned, tuned and sharpened for that kind of money. If you're in the Albany area, you're welcome to stop by and check out the stuff I have.

[don wilwol]

IMHO, $25-$50 for a #5 that you'll need to clean/tune is way too much. There are several people here (myself included) who sell planes that have been cleaned, tuned and sharpened for that kind of money. If you're in the Albany area, you're welcome to stop by and check out the stuff I have.

If you stop by Dave's shop, it's best to bring a clean t shirt. Driving home with a drool covered shirt is a bitch!

[Todd Stock]

Type refers to the vintage plane user - not the tool.

Like many other human behaviors, vintage plane user behaviors are never just binary, but instead are best represented as a linear distribution, aka, a spectrum. In the case of the Vintage Plane User Spectrum, Type 1 hand tool users are rare, but represent that small class of craftsmen that believe that nothing made after the earlier part of Civil War-era Reconstruction has a place in their shop. At the other end of the spectrum are the Type 20 craftspersons, who tend to go in for tie-dyed t-shirts and longer hairdos, talk a lot about upcoming week-long tool 'festivals' in rural upstate NY, and favor planes painted in colors other than black - these are the hippies of the vintage plane world. In between are the other 18 type classifications of users.

So the task at hand for you is to determine where on the Vintage Plane User Spectrum you reside (if at all). If lateral adjustors just upset you with their fickle persnicketiness, you are likely somewhere near the low end of the spectrum, and certainly no higher than a Type 4. If you find yourself nodding agreement with every pearl of ancient wisdom falling from Warren's lips, you are likely a Type 12 or 13 (known colloquially as 'TiLTs' - for 'Twelvers Leaning Thirteenish'). Lusting after Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley low angles? Off-spectrum entirely and not even part of the conversation.

Once you identify where on the spectrum you fall, avail yourself of the numerous self-help blogs run by and for various user types. The TiLTs blog is particularly good, with a recent spate of posts on why wearing trousers cinched up to just below the sternum is the only proper approach to the garment, and why newspapers should be expected to rebound in circulation as the radio fad fades away.

Good luck, and hope this helps.

[Patrick Chase]

Well done, Todd. Well done.

[Jason Dean]

I have been looking around ebay for hand planes specifically stanley number 5. I know what it means by number. A number 4 is a smoothing plane, number 5 is a do it all bench plane, a number 6 is bigger than a number 5 ect. But what does it mean if the plane is a number 5 type 16? other ones I see are number 4 1/2 type 5, number 5 type 11. What does type mean? Also is it worth it to buy a plane on ebay? most of them cost $25-$50 plus $10-$20 in shipping and you have to go through the work of restoring them. Or I could go on rockler and get a stanley number 5 for $75 with free shipping that I don't have to take the time to restore.

Adam,

While many of the features changes between types are purely cosmetic, significant functionality changes were introduced as well. The biggest differences in my mind are left vs right handed threads on the depth adjuster, plastic depth adjustment knob, and rosewood vs painted beach handles.

My #3 has a left-handed depth adjuster which causes me trouble from time to time when transitioning between planes as the adjustment is backwards.

[Mark Gibney]

Ha! that got me laughing Todd.

[Jim Koepke]

Adam,

While many of the features changes between types are purely cosmetic, significant functionality changes were introduced as well. The biggest differences in my mind are left vs right handed threads on the depth adjuster, plastic depth adjustment knob, and rosewood vs painted beach handles.

My #3 has a left-handed depth adjuster which causes me trouble from time to time when transitioning between planes as the adjustment is backwards.

For me it was the change from a short knob to a tall knob with type 12 or late type 11. Though at around the same time was a change from a 1" to a 1-1/4" depth adjuster. The larger adjusting wheel makes life easier.

A group of the larger adjuster wheels came up on ebay and ended up being mine. So many of my planes are Frankenplanes since they mix a low knob with a large adjuster.

This makes it easy to keep the left hand versus right hand thread depth adjusted planes sorted since the right hand threads can only use the small adjuster. My recollection is only 4 of my planes are type 6 or earlier. It was at the end of type 6 when this was changed, ~1892.

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

Keep in mind that, as Todd Stock kind of suggests in his delightful note, the type studies are imposing a sense of order/"model year" on a manufacturer that made a lot of running changes and used the parts in the bins until they were gone. Still, they're a useful indicator. For instance, I'd prefer a plane with the Type 9 or later frog over one with the earlier frog designs: it's better supported at the mouth. That said, I tested a plane with an earlier frog design on maple, and it was baby-butt smooth planing, even though the frog is cantilevered out from its supports at the mouth.

[Patrick Chase]

Keep in mind that, as Todd Stock kind of suggests in his delightful note, the type studies are imposing a sense of order/"model year" on a manufacturer that made a lot of running changes and used the parts in the bins until they were gone.

Patrick Leach has a terrific quotation on that point: "keep in mind that Stanley never knew about the type studies when they were making their stuff". In addition to the issues you cite, Stanley also made the same planes in multiple factories around the world, and design changes didn't always hit at the same time in all locales.

Types are the woodworking community's answer to retroactive continuity.

[steven c newman]

Hyperkitten also has a lot of info of when those "types" tended to show up....and when some things were dropped from the models.

Very easy with a Millers Falls plane...there being only 5 types....