What does type mean for hand planes?

[Stew Denton]

Adam,

Knowing a little about the types is useful sometimes. (Like the above guys mentioned, it kind of tracks when Stanley made changes to the planes, each time a noticeable change was made, the type # was advanced one unit, for example Rexmill says the Type 15s were made from 1931 to 1932, and the type 16 was made from 1933 to 1941.) You can identify the plane by Type # and then know a lot about the frog design from that, with out taking the plane apart, something that is worth knowing if you buy planes on Ebay, like I have to.)

There are limits to this, because as was pointed out above, the Type # was not something Stanley came up with, the type # listing was something collectors and users came up with LONG after the fact. Thus when Stanley went from one type to the next in the series, they used up all of the parts for the previous type on the later type, when they fit, so you can have parts from more than one Type # on the same plane, and Stanley made them that way. Also, when parts got lost or broken on a plane, the owner would come up with a part that fit, either from another broken plane or buying a replacement part from Stanley, so there are a lot of Frankenplanes out there.

In the case I listed above, the frog design of the type 16 was not quite as good as the type 15 and some of the earlier frog designs. Personally I like the type 10s to to type 15s, and can be happy with any in that range.

Jim can easily adjust the earlier types, so he likes them, but I have trouble with adjusting the earlier models, so stick with the type 10s to type 15s. As Jim mentioned above he also changed some of his planes to resemble the type 11 with a low knob, but he likes the large adjuster wheel of the type 12s and later, so he changed that feature out on some of his earlier planes. If I got a great deal on Ebay I would do some of the same things Jim did.

By knowing a bit about the plane types you can pick features you like, as Jim Mentioned, and modify existing planes by adding parts you really like to make convert a plane to a Frankenplane that has the best features of other types.

At any rate, it is worth the time to take the link to Rexmill that is listed above, IMHO.

Regards,

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

Jim can easily adjust the earlier types, so he likes them, but I have trouble with adjusting the earlier models, so stick with the type 10s to type 15s.

During my days of buying planes on ebay everyone was going nuts for type 10 and later because of the frog adjusting feature. At the time the earlier planes were being neglected. Why worry about frog adjusting when two planes could be set up different.

Besides does anyone adjust their frog once in a year?

Since learning more about using a chip breaker, setting the mouth on a plane has been no worries.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Hi Jim,

I think you have a point. When I get the frog like I like it from that point on I leave it alone. The only time it gets messed with is when I take one apart to clean it, to get any wood dust out, and I do that fairly often when I use one. The nice thing about the adjustment feature is that it goes back in the same way it came out and is pretty much in the same spot.

I need to learn to do the adjusting like you do on the earlier type #s but just haven't yet, and need to get better a setting the frog anyway. I spend way too much time fooling with them getting them to cut the way I want.

Stew

[Axel de Pugey]

(...)Stanley also made the same planes in multiple factories around the world, and design changes didn't always hit at the same time in all locales.(...)

I was always reluctant to use these "Type Studies" for my Stanley planes due to the fact that being in Europe, we mainly have "made in UK" planes.
I always thought that could not accurately apply for products made outside the US.

By the way, is there a source of info to know more about the factories in Canada, UK or Australia?
I don't even know when Stanley UK produced the first planes, I am not sure I have seen UK models with low knobs for example.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have been looking around ebay for hand planes specifically stanley number 5. I know what it means by number. A number 4 is a smoothing plane, number 5 is a do it all bench plane, a number 6 is bigger than a number 5 ect. But what does it mean if the plane is a number 5 type 16? other ones I see are number 4 1/2 type 5, number 5 type 11. What does type mean? Also is it worth it to buy a plane on ebay? most of them cost $25-$50 plus $10-$20 in shipping and you have to go through the work of restoring them. Or I could go on rockler and get a stanley number 5 for $75 with free shipping that I don't have to take the time to restore.

My first hand plane was a Lie Nielsen because I was so afraid of having to restore the plane. I will admit that it is one of my best planes and I love their planes, but they are very expensive. I expect that something from Lee Valley will be about the same; OK, it has been the same for all my Lee Valley planes. These are both much more expensive than $50, however.

If you are able to find one at at a garage sale or flee market, then you can save on the shipping, if that helps. If you lived near by, which you don't, I would give you a hand.

The real problem is that you don't really know what will need to be done until you receive the plane and give it a go.

I take it that you are just getting started....

What planes do you need / want?

[Patrick Chase]

My first hand plane was a Lie Nielsen because I was so afraid of having to restore the plane. I will admit that it is one of my best planes and I love their planes, but they are very expensive. I expect that something from Lee Valley will be about the same; OK, it has been the same for all my Lee Valley planes. These are both much more expensive than $50, however.

If you are able to find one at at a garage sale or flee market, then you can save on the shipping, if that helps. If you lived near by, which you don't, I would give you a hand.

The real problem is that you don't really know what will need to be done until you receive the plane and give it a go.

While I would take Andrew up on his offer in a heartbeat, it's probably worth noting that there are these people called "tool dealers" who make their living by doing exactly what you ask: They speculatively buy planes at auctions and swap meets based on their best judgment, fully examine and sometimes clean them, and then resell them along as "known quantities" to users. In addition to convenient one-stop shopping;, the key value add by which a tool dealer justifies their profit margin is their ability to (mostly) take the uncertainty out of the process for us end users.

For the life of me I can't understand why people are always positiing a false dichotomy between L-N and FleaBay. There are a LOT of solutions in between.

[steven c newman]

Type 20...vs a type 9..
IMG_2032 (640x480).jpg
As for these....Type 2 and type 4...mainly..
IMG_2033 (640x480).jpg
But, then again..Millers Falls only had 5 "types" anyway.....stay away from the type 5s....

[Andrew Pitonyak]

While I would take Andrew up on his offer in a heartbeat

I live too far away to be of any direct use.

They speculatively buy planes at auctions and swap meets based on their best judgment, fully examine and sometimes clean them, and then resell them along as "known quantities" to users. In addition to convenient one-stop shopping;, the key value add by which a tool dealer justifies their profit margin is their ability to (mostly) take the uncertainty out of the process for us end users.

You surely got that right. It is usually the case that you remove uncertainty by adding to the cost. I bought a "tuned up" #8, but sadly, the tuning process included a Lie Nielsen blade that is too thick for the plane. I had to chat with some people here (and Steve in person) to understand the real issue; I need to either open the mouth or go back to an original thickness blade.

For the life of me I can't understand why people are always positiing a false dichotomy between L-N and FleaBay. There are a LOT of solutions in between.

For certain that is the case, or, "AMEN BROTHER"!

[Roy Turbett]

Type refers to the vintage plane user - not the tool.

Like many other human behaviors, vintage plane user behaviors are never just binary, but instead are best represented as a linear distribution, aka, a spectrum. In the case of the Vintage Plane User Spectrum, Type 1 hand tool users are rare, but represent that small class of craftsmen that believe that nothing made after the earlier part of Civil War-era Reconstruction has a place in their shop. At the other end of the spectrum are the Type 20 craftspersons, who tend to go in for tie-dyed t-shirts and longer hairdos, talk a lot about upcoming week-long tool 'festivals' in rural upstate NY, and favor planes painted in colors other than black - these are the hippies of the vintage plane world. In between are the other 18 type classifications of users.

So the task at hand for you is to determine where on the Vintage Plane User Spectrum you reside (if at all). If lateral adjustors just upset you with their fickle persnicketiness, you are likely somewhere near the low end of the spectrum, and certainly no higher than a Type 4. If you find yourself nodding agreement with every pearl of ancient wisdom falling from Warren's lips, you are likely a Type 12 or 13 (known colloquially as 'TiLTs' - for 'Twelvers Leaning Thirteenish'). Lusting after Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley low angles? Off-spectrum entirely and not even part of the conversation.

Once you identify where on the spectrum you fall, avail yourself of the numerous self-help blogs run by and for various user types. The TiLTs blog is particularly good, with a recent spate of posts on why wearing trousers cinched up to just below the sternum is the only proper approach to the garment, and why newspapers should be expected to rebound in circulation as the radio fad fades away.

Good luck, and hope this helps.

Very funny ... and true!

[kent wardecke]

I just picked up my first No.5 on EBay, a type 9. $35 + $15. I had to jump in somewhere. I had already shopped a flea market, The prices were high and the selection was small.
My impression of my first buy? "meh" The seller had done some tuning but there is a lot of paint on the body and some parts are really rough. I think I need to relieve the back side of the mouth so shavings can flow out better. Whether I keep it or give it to my son for Christmas I'll need to work on it. In the mean time I'm looking for a rabbeting block plane

[Jim Koepke]

I just picked up my first No.5 on EBay, a type 9. $35 + $15. I had to jump in somewhere. I had already shopped a flea market, The prices were high and the selection was small.
My impression of my first buy? "meh" The seller had done some tuning but there is a lot of paint on the body and some parts are really rough. I think I need to relieve the back side of the mouth so shavings can flow out better. Whether I keep it or give it to my son for Christmas I'll need to work on it. In the mean time I'm looking for a rabbeting block plane

Howdy Kent and welcome to the Creek.

It is unlikely to find a rabbeting block plane on the secondary market. Not many of those around in the "vintage" crowd. There is likely to be a better selection of small rabbet (block) planes in the field of shoulder planes.

jtk

[Robert Hazelwood]

I just picked up my first No.5 on EBay, a type 9. $35 + $15. I had to jump in somewhere. I had already shopped a flea market, The prices were high and the selection was small.
My impression of my first buy? "meh" The seller had done some tuning but there is a lot of paint on the body and some parts are really rough. I think I need to relieve the back side of the mouth so shavings can flow out better. Whether I keep it or give it to my son for Christmas I'll need to work on it. In the mean time I'm looking for a rabbeting block plane

Are you thinking the mouth is too tight and choking the shavings? If that's the case you can almost certainly solve that by moving the frog back. Loosen the two frog mounting screws (visible with the blade removed) and slide the frog back. The other thing to look at for feeding problems is the chipbreaker; make sure it mates tightly with the back of the iron so there is nowhere for shavings to catch, and make sure there is an appropriate angle on the top side (somewhere around 50 degrees. It's not that critical but it shouldn't be way off from there, say like 90 degrees).

[kent wardecke]

Howdy Kent and welcome to the Creek.

It is unlikely to find a rabbeting block plane on the secondary market. Not many of those around in the "vintage" crowd. There is likely to be a better selection of small rabbet (block) planes in the field of shoulder planes.

jtk

How right you are. Just found a LN 60 1/2 rabetting block plane on eBay and the bid is $111 two days from closing

[kent wardecke]

There is so much paint it's difficult to adjust the frog. After stripping it I may need to put an angel on the top side

[steven c newman]

Looks like I will be picking up a Stanley No. 4c, Type 16 Thursday......It will need a bit of work to get rehabbed. May do a step by step blog about how I do this sort of work?

Type 16 were from about ..1935 to 1941.....still a decent enough plane....