Best way to assemble face frames made with pocket holes?

[andy photenas]

Hello all, I would like to know what is the best way to assemble face frames made with pocket holes ?

Really I'm asking about how people go about clamping them so you don't need a lot of sanding after.

I am a one man shop and atm I use mortise and tenon to build them but I need to learn to make my turn around time faster and I think changing to the proper method to make face frames with pocket holes would be a lot faster.

[George Bokros]

Kreg face frame clamps or better a Kreg clamp table.

[Martin Wasner]

The Kreg and Castle face frame tables have two problems. Too small, and too lightly built.

I have a Unique Machine brand 5x12 table like this I wish they would've put a bit more bracing in that as well. The corner that gets used the most is starting to get a bit spongy.

I paid $1200 for mine used when the sky was falling in 08' or 09'. I haven't paid attention to what they sell for nowadays.

Ritter used to make a nice one as well, I just prefer the Unique Machine one.

You can get them as a combo where they work as a door clamp too.


Also, the only way to effectively make pocket screw pockets is a Castle Machine. I've used most others, the Castle is the best. They can be found used in reasonably good shape for $1200 - $1500

[Warren Lake]

mortise and tennon like it was done for 1000 years

[Martin Wasner]

mortise and tennon like it was done for 1000 years

Glue has changed massively in the last 20 years though Warren.

[Lee Schierer]

I use the vise grip style face frame clamps that came with my drilling jig. I place the large pad on the face that shows and have never had an alignment problem. I set them to clamp up really hard.

[Warren Lake]

the playing field was level till the gizmo guys came along you buy our gizmo you save time we dont care about craft we sell gizmos and make more than you do. When I see kitchens advertised as high end high quality and and I see stuff thats not even made the way it was made. my views are not popular I know old guy said along time ago quality went down with the industrial revolution and id agree with that. Just ignore me sometimes I can stop myself from talking

[Larry Edgerton]

the playing field was level till the gizmo guys came along you buy our gizmo you save time we dont care about craft we sell gizmos and make more than you do. When I see kitchens advertised as high end high quality and and I see stuff thats not even made the way it was made. my views are not popular I know old guy said along time ago quality went down with the industrial revolution and id agree with that. Just ignore me sometimes I can stop myself from talking

I have to side with you, although I do use modern glue. With M&T of course......

Dinosaurs, thats what we are, extinction is eminent.

[michael dilday]

I made a plywood clamp board with plywood strips about 1.5" wide squared on two sides. Put the two pieces of the face frame on it, a little glue, clamp it down with Kreg face clamps on the joint to hold them flush and put the screws in. Built my entire kitchen that way. Now I have the Kreg clamp table with the bench clamps and that works better.

[Pat Barry]

the playing field was level till the gizmo guys came along you buy our gizmo you save time we dont care about craft we sell gizmos and make more than you do. When I see kitchens advertised as high end high quality and and I see stuff thats not even made the way it was made. my views are not popular I know old guy said along time ago quality went down with the industrial revolution and id agree with that. Just ignore me sometimes I can stop myself from talking

For a face frame pocket screws are just fine.

[Cary Falk]

I use the clamp that you use to hold the jig to keep the faces even. I put the other clamp that fits in the pocket hold to keep it from sliding the other way. Put a screw in the empty hole. Remove the clamp in the other hole and put in the screw. I don't have a bench large for some of my stuff so it works for me. Probably not the quickest though.

[scott vroom]

the playing field was level till the gizmo guys came along you buy our gizmo you save time we dont care about craft we sell gizmos and make more than you do. When I see kitchens advertised as high end high quality and and I see stuff thats not even made the way it was made. my views are not popular I know old guy said along time ago quality went down with the industrial revolution and id agree with that. Just ignore me sometimes I can stop myself from talking

The first mortise and tenon was a gizmo to the craftsmen who used tule reed to tie joints together. It's called progress. I'm guessing the first mortise and tenon guys would have given their left n_t to have pocket screws.

Pocket screws and glue are fine for FF's.

[J.R. Rutter]

I have a bench with about 3" of overhang and a nice old Jorgenson C clamp. Apply glue to end grain with finger, reapply after 30 seconds, align joints, clamp, screw. For frames that have multiple openings I cut spacers from scrap rips and use some K-bodies to snug the divider up to the end with spacers on each side. I just rotate the frame to access all the joints with the clamp. I've had to break apart a few frames over the years, and even with end grain, wood is breaking not the glue joint.

Agree that Castle machines are nice. I have the old Porter Cable made by Castle and it is about perfect for doing a couple of frames. For big jobs, the pneumatic version is great.

[Bill Dufour]

I see the laminated melanimne plywood flat panel frameless kitchen cabinets and I wonder when did the pressed steel cabinets go out of style? They were in my 1950 duplex and no worse then modern cheap HD cabinets made of particle board.
Bill

[peter gagliardi]

I don't use pocket screws very often anymore, I have moved higher end, and do mortise and tenon mostly now. However, before I got the mortisers and tenoners, I did almost exactly like J.R. describes- edge of bench with a Bessey clamp for probably 15 years.
The issue with kitchen cabinets is that they are no longer considered an integral part of the home. They are changed out and tossed almost as often as rooms get repainted. This of course feeds the mentality that they only need to be "good enough" to last 5-10-15 years.
Most people are shopping price over quality, and small shops need to adapt or starve, feeding into the lowering of quality, thus the kitchen doesn't last, thus leading to replacement , etc....

I do not think however that as Martin says, that glues have gotten much better in the last 20 years. We have had aliphatic resins and PVA type glues for over a century, and Hide glue has been shown to last a few thousand years!
That is a moot point in my opinion.
Any time there is a race to the bottom on price points, quality levels, or sometimes perceived and real quality of construction will suffer.