Is woodturning really competitive?

[Harold Balzonia]

Warning: This is a philosophical thread....

There have been a few times I've been approached at shows and told "I used a lathe in high school and made stuff like this..."

I've read forums where people have pretty powerful opinions on how to do things but have never shown a photo of their own work.... That always makes me a little skeptical....

And I sometimes look at pictures of turnings and think "I wonder how they did that? ... Could I do something like that? Maybe I could do it better if I did this....."

And that's the thought that gets to me... what is "better" when it comes to wood turning? Do you compare your work to other people's? Do you look at some work and think "meh, I could do that... it's not that hard..."

It took me a long while to (mostly) get over comparing my stuff to other people's work. I did this a lot when I first started many years ago. But once I gave up "competing" with others in my own mind, my enjoyment actually increased. And I'm pretty sure my end results improved as well.

I wonder if anyone else has thought about this? Do others view this hobby/career as "competitive" and does it affect the way you work? Do the production turners in the forum feel pressure to "beat" the other guys? (Whatever that means). Are you ever driven to "one up" something you see from another turner?

[Rick McQuay]

Woodturning specifically, I'm not good enough to feel competitive with anyone nor anyone with me. But woodworking in general it feels like everyone wants to be "the master" whether they have 30 years experience, 3 months experience, or are still getting ready to start someday. But I understand what you mean. Used to be I did whatever I wanted to do and was happy but then the internet came along and for awhile I felt unhappy and I suppose a bit competitive. Now I'm trying to get back to where I don't care what other people do and just enjoy myself.

[david beck]

First i will say, i never have and never will show pics of anything i make or have made. So i dont normally post on here(same with the other forum i am on) because on here pics rule the world. With that said, i dont suppose i am competitive (woodworking wise) in any real sense, if i was surely i would care what others think and i sure dont. Although i am VERY competitive in the sense i judge my own work as harshly or much more so than others work. I still to this day cant look at any project i have made and not first think of the mistakes in it. Does not matter how nice it is i still think it could be better.

[Phil Hansen]

Hi David,
You said it nicely,
I am a harsh judge of my own work and I let the customers agree or not.
The customer is the one who has the final say. If I am happy and they are - all is good.
If I am not happy I will redo.
If they are not happy I will fix.
External critics do not always see the big picture in a little snapshot.

Just my point of view.
Phil

[Tim Passmore]

I love to see the craftsmanship of other turners/woodworkers-----I often find their work to be a source of inspiration or ideas. The only "competion" that I'm concerned with is with myself. Is my last turning better than previous projects? Are my skills improving? Am I learning new techniques? If I can answer "yes" to these questions, then I'm pleased. Being pleased doesn't mean I'm satisfied.

[Thom Sturgill]

I don't think of it as competition. I judege mine more harshly than others because as the artist, I know what I was trying for, the viewer (I don't sell) or recipient can only judge the piece by itself or by comparison to other pieces they have seen.

When I see a "new" design, I may think - "that has some interesting challenges or requires a new technique" and may thus become determined to make a similar piece myself. A good example was my reaction to seeing the beaded bowls. I've only made two so far and determined that one needs to be a bit more anal than I am to get perfect results, but I can do a passable job.

[John K Jordan]

I'll have to think about that for a while. I never feel competitive but maybe I'm fooling myself. When I see excellent or unique turnings my thoughts are "I wanna try that", not "I'll do it better" to show him up.

Like many of us, I'm my own most critical critic so I guess I am in very strong competition with myself! I've reworked some things two or three times, removed finishes, tweaked a shape, etc. - if still unsatisfied it goes into the wood stove or my Box-O-Shame. (I have a good friend who is a well known potter - you should see the midden of smashed pottery behind his house!)

I do think inspiration from excellence in other's work is so valuable, in forums, print, or better, in person. I love club show-and-tell time. I have a shelf of books in my little library just for inspiration of function, form, and finish. One guy said recently on another forum, "If you are the best turner you know, go find more turners." !!!

Very soon after I started turning wood I quit listening to the self-appointed critics concerning design "rules". I do want to be the best I can possibly be with clean curves and surfaces without unintentional defects. I do sigh inside when I see show-and-tell pieces with obvious inattention to these things but then, hey, hobby woodturning is for fun and that guy is in the shop instead of sitting in front of the TV! But I do notice things I would call "defects" not so I can do better than that guy but so I can be more aware of what to look for in my own turnings.

BTW, I never offer suggestions on pieces unless asked. However, when someone comes to me I do highly enjoy teaching what I've learned - one guy was at my shop for almost 7 hours yesterday! - skew lesson, sharpening, appropriate tools, work holding, form, sanding. I get immense satisfaction when someone's turnings take a step forward after we work on techniques. I ran into one guy who reminded me of the skew lessons years before and said the skew was one now of his favorite tools! Yea!

I'll have to "philosophically" examine my motives in the coming months and see if my satisfaction comes from what I do or if some is in comparison to others.

This should be an excellent thread!

JKJ

[ELY WALTON]

Over the years, I have limited myself to four hobbies. Woodworking (mostly turning) is one. IMHO, competition is a good way to ruin a good hobby. Just sayin'

Ely
(BTW, other three hobbies are fishing, amateur radio/high-speed telegraphy, and mountain biking -- all have potential for competition.)

[John K Jordan]

...IMHO, competition is a good way to ruin a good hobby. Just sayin'

So right. So is turning it in to job with the goal of making money. Would be for me, anyway!

(Yikes, I'll bet my wife wishes I would stick to four hobbies! Or even six...)

JKJ

[roger wiegand]

Being competitive is a losing proposition for the 99.999% of the population that lacks the combination of innate "talent" (whatever that is) plus the willingness to devote the 20,000 hours of hard practice that it takes to master any one thing. At most we can try for one such thing, maybe two if you are a genius superstar. I admire and try to learn from those who are better than I, and try, in turn, to pass on what I know. And have some fun in the meantime.

[Joe Bradshaw]

For me, woodturning is more about sharing the process with other turners. I don't mind having my work judged by others. It is the only way to improve. I enjoy looking at other turners work. I get ideas and can sometimes combine several features into one finished piece. I like to push myself to improve, but, sometimes, I just have to say that this is as good as I can do today. But, then we all have those moments when you hold your mouth just right and the planets and stars line-up and you get a piece that surprises yourself. I think that the only person that I compete with is myself.
Joe

[ron david]

Being competitive is a losing proposition for the 99.999% of the population that lacks the combination of innate "talent" (whatever that is) plus the willingness to devote the 20,000 hours of hard practice that it takes to master any one thing. At most we can try for one such thing, maybe two if you are a genius superstar. I admire and try to learn from those who are better than I, and try, in turn, to pass on what I know. And have some fun in the meantime.

I am glad that you do not believe in Malcolm Gladwell's philosophy of 10,000 hours ( the outliers) make a master. Hours alone really mean squat. there are very few that have the capabilities to become a master at what they do
ron

[Chris Gunsolley]

Great topic! I just want to add that you can judge a creation without any consideration for the potential superiority/inferiority between pieces. Judge each piece individually, in terms of interpretation, as opposed to comparison. Every piece simply says something different--this has nothing to do with what's better or worse. When a person says that an artist should have done something different, they fail to see what the different potential outcomes of a piece have to offer. Something that is bottom heavy may not look as light but it looks more grounded. Something that's more top heavy is on its toes, giving it life and making the energy it contains apparent. A round form is bulbous and in motion, an enclosed form embraces what it holds, while a concave form is inviting and emerging. A piece with voids suggests that regardless of the events in life, a consistent 'spirit' in each of us remains. Tool marks suggest that something can be appreciated regardless of apparent flaws (yes, believe it or not, you can make a piece with intentional tool marks). As my friend Prashun pointed out, a crack is a celebration of how wood releases tension. A thin wall is elegance but a thicker wall is strength. Perfection itself is intriguing and a mesmerizing demonstration of precision. Abstract work gets my wheels rolling but others may prefer a painting that rivals reality. These qualities combine with one another and the quality of the material to give rise to a unique personality just as you see in you or I. My point is that regardless of the intention of the artist, all of these outcomes are beautiful in their own way for the different meanings they convey.

I love other turners because in sharing a love for turning I think we are kindred spirits.

[Damon McLaughlin]

I've only been working with wood for two years and never once did I feel competitive with others. I admire what others do and learn from them as well. I enjoy looking at pictures for ideas, most of which I modify to my own tastes. But I've never felt the need to compete with others. With myself I always challenge myself to learn something new or to do a skill set better. I'm constantly wanting the next turning or flat work to be better than the one before. I don't know if that is being competitive with myself or not, I've always considered it as challenging myself.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Depends on how you define competition. There are the bigger and better toy boys. "I have a HF-12 x 34 lathe and the next guy claims he has a 16x 40 Grizzly and another has a jet or powermatic. Yeah I see some of that. But that is not for me.

Is competition in the number of pieces or the design of segmented turning. Seen some of that too. (Although frankly segmented turning currently does nothing for me.)

Getting huge expensive pieces of extremely exotic wood to work with. I see a bit of that in most places.

Recently at out club, we had a hands on learning session with several lathes on hand, a grinder and experienced folks to guide the newbies. I learned so much that evening. I did take notice, a little "member" envy between members over their tools. I was there with a selection of varied used stuff picked up at yard sales and flea markets. I am still learning to sharpen. A cryogenic, GMO fiber handled, diamond tipped scraper with blue tooth means nothing to me. but does to some folk apparently.

I have kept pieces of my work, from the first thing I turned in 40 years to what I turned last week. If I am into any turning competition, it is with myself. How can I improve the finish, are there still scratches. How fine is the work. does the bowl have a gradual even thinning of the wall. is the bottom still heavy and clunky? Could I make one so fine, light shows through?

I look at the work of others as inspiration. Honestly, I saw a vendor at a show doing turnings, and folks were lined up to buy. I saw the quality as substandard. It was that guys work that prompted me back into turning. And yes, my first turning in all those years was not as good as his product, but I was there in a space of a few weeks. I suppose that is a type of competition. But the ornaments I turn are donated to charity and sell surprisingly well for the charity.