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Thread: I Need Help with Lie-Nielsen Planes

  1. #1

    I Need Help with Lie-Nielsen Planes

    Two part question…
    First I’m gearing up to order a Lie-Nielsen jointer, either a 7 or 8. The largest plane I have now is an older Stanley #6. I like the idea of the 8, but in practice I’m worried it’s too wide to edge joint 3/4” which is what I mainly work with, but sometimes thinner. I’m not worried about pushing the weight around. This is making me lean towards a 7 though since it seems a little more versatile since I’d like to be able to use it on 1/2” material if I needed to. Am I over-analyzing it? I’ve never used a plane larger than my 6.
    Second part kind of depends on the first. I bought my first LN plane a few months ago and love it. I got a 4-1/2 and I use it way more than my Stanley #4. I feel like my #4 is too light now so I’m always reaching for the 4-1/2. I opted for the standard frog instead of a higher angle and put a slight back bevel on it when dealing with tricky grain with works for the most part. Am I missing out not having a dedicated higher angle frog? If I order a 7 then should I order a 50 or 55 degree frog and swap with the 4-1/2 or not worry about it since I use the 4-1/2 so much and it’s not just for dedicated situations? So many options!
    Thanks for any help!!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Harrison View Post
    Two part question…
    First I’m gearing up to order a Lie-Nielsen jointer, either a 7 or 8. The largest plane I have now is an older Stanley #6. I like the idea of the 8, but in practice I’m worried it’s too wide to edge joint 3/4” which is what I mainly work with, but sometimes thinner. I’m not worried about pushing the weight around. This is making me lean towards a 7 though since it seems a little more versatile since I’d like to be able to use it on 1/2” material if I needed to. Am I over-analyzing it? I’ve never used a plane larger than my 6.
    Second part kind of depends on the first. I bought my first LN plane a few months ago and love it. I got a 4-1/2 and I use it way more than my Stanley #4. I feel like my #4 is too light now so I’m always reaching for the 4-1/2. I opted for the standard frog instead of a higher angle and put a slight back bevel on it when dealing with tricky grain with works for the most part. Am I missing out not having a dedicated higher angle frog? If I order a 7 then should I order a 50 or 55 degree frog and swap with the 4-1/2 or not worry about it since I use the 4-1/2 so much and it’s not just for dedicated situations? So many options!
    Thanks for any help!!
    I have the L-N 8, and a Veritas Custom 7, and a bevel-up jointer, and an ECE jointer...

    A couple thoughts:
    • The #8 won't buy you anything for edge-jointing. The difference in length (22" vs 24") is pretty minor, and the extra iron width is wasted in that case. It's just extra weight to no good end IMO.
    • Either of them will work fine on 1/2" material (I assume you mean for edge jointing there?). If you can balance either on a 1/2" then you can balance both.
    • The main value of the bigger plane is for jointing large panels, like tabletops. If that isn't part of your intended use, then I'd go with the 7.
    • I think that it would be better to focus on learning to use a close-set cap iron rather than messing with high-angle frogs. A 2-3/8" iron at 55 deg creates some pretty significant planing forces.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    I have the L-N 8, and a Veritas Custom 7, and a bevel-up jointer, and an ECE jointer...

    A couple thoughts:
    • The #8 won't buy you anything for edge-jointing. The difference in length (22" vs 24") is pretty minor, and the extra iron width is wasted in that case. It's just extra weight to no good end IMO.
    • Either of them will work fine on 1/2" material (I assume you mean for edge jointing there?). If you can balance either on a 1/2" then you can balance both.
    • The main value of the bigger plane is for jointing large panels, like tabletops. If that isn't part of your intended use, then I'd go with the 7.
    • I think that it would be better to focus on learning to use a close-set cap iron rather than messing with high-angle frogs. A 2-3/8" iron at 55 deg creates some pretty significant planing forces.
    I did mean edge jointing the 1/2 inch. I have a large coffee table in the near future, a new workbench down the road, and then who knows. I'd like to be prepared for any future projects, but most of the stuff I'll be doing will be smaller. Knowing that would you still stick with a 7?
    Hard to know what to do when I don't have access to any of these tools to try out. I'm happy with the results I get with the standard frog, but it's hard to know what you don't know, ya know? Thanks for the response.

  4. #4
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    I have several different sized planes......from a #5-1/2 up to the Stanley No.8.....I prefer the no.7 for boards LONGER than the plane's sole....I use a length that is shorter than the board is long. Sometimes, even a #5 will work.

    Edge jointing is also about HOW you hold the plane......you do not hold the front knob. The thumb hooks over the edge of the plane, the index finger acts as a fence. The index finger will also tell you if you are tipping the plane to either side.

    Using too long of a plane means too much work to use the plane....and too much time wasted. You have to keep the area behind the mouth level....if there is too much sole back there in mid-air, makes for a long day.
    second edge.jpg
    On the longer boards, I tend to use my No. 7c Type 9 ...

  5. #5
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    Hi Steven

    I have a LN Anniversary #4 1/2. This came with a 50 degree frog. Later I added a 55 degree frog. The combinatipn of high angle, wide blade and heavy body made this hard to push, and it ended up on the shelf. Years later, when I learned to set the chipbreaker up close, I added a 45 degree frog. The plane was transformed .... still heavy (and my tastes had changed by then to lighter planes) but a very useable plane.

    As far as the jointer goes, I get a lighter plane. The #7 is by far preferred to the #8. Also look at the Veritas Custom #7, which is superb. Either plane will do all you want.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    I have several different sized planes......from a #5-1/2 up to the Stanley No.8.....I prefer the no.7 for boards LONGER than the plane's sole....I use a length that is shorter than the board is long. Sometimes, even a #5 will work.

    Edge jointing is also about HOW you hold the plane......you do not hold the front knob. The thumb hooks over the edge of the plane, the index finger acts as a fence. The index finger will also tell you if you are tipping the plane to either side.

    Using too long of a plane means too much work to use the plane....and too much time wasted. You have to keep the area behind the mouth level....if there is too much sole back there in mid-air, makes for a long day.
    second edge.jpg
    On the longer boards, I tend to use my No. 7c Type 9 ...
    So a number 7 over the 8. That's what I was looking for. I've been using my 6 with success in flattening and edge joining with what I've been doing, but with some larger projects on the horizon I really wanted to have something longer to pursue flat and true the best I could (I don't have any machines). Thanks for your help

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Hi Steven

    I have a LN Anniversary #4 1/2. This came with a 50 degree frog. Later I added a 55 degree frog. The combinatipn of high angle, wide blade and heavy body made this hard to push, and it ended up on the shelf. Years later, when I learned to set the chipbreaker up close, I added a 45 degree frog. The plane was transformed .... still heavy (and my tastes had changed by then to lighter planes) but a very useable plane.

    As far as the jointer goes, I get a lighter plane. The #7 is by far preferred to the #8. Also look at the Veritas Custom #7, which is superb. Either plane will do all you want.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Hey Derek,

    Thanks for your opinions on all of the above and puts me at ease about the high angle frog. Looks like a 7 is where I want to look. I had a chance to try the Veritas bench planes at The Woodworking Shows (where I actually ordered my Low Angle Jack with PM-V11 that I love) and it just didn't feel right for me. Thanks again.

  8. #8
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    Never had a #8 but the #7 worked fine for two 7' long projects. I can't see the #8 being radically different. Just order a second frog for difficult grain
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Harrison View Post
    Hey Derek,

    Thanks for your opinions on all of the above and puts me at ease about the high angle frog. Looks like a 7 is where I want to look. I had a chance to try the Veritas bench planes at The Woodworking Shows (where I actually ordered my Low Angle Jack with PM-V11 that I love) and it just didn't feel right for me. Thanks again.
    Reiterating something I said above: Investigate using a close-set cap iron. Jointers are the type of plane for which doing so pays the largest dividends, because you will need to take moderately thick but still tearout-free shavings when jointing to be productive. The cap iron is my preferred method of tearout management, and I believe that to be true of Derek as well. I actually have a 42 deg frog in my #7 right now to optimize surface quality and ease of planing, and IIRC Derek was my inspiration for doing that. It produces tearout-free results in domestic hardwoods when used with a properly adjusted cap iron, even when planing against the grain.

    Search for "David Weaver setting a cap iron" for a useful starting point. His document is on a "rival" forum so I can't link it without violating SMC TOS.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Reiterating something I said above: Investigate using a close-set cap iron. Jointers are the type of plane for which doing so pays the largest dividends, because you will need to take moderately thick but still tearout-free shavings when jointing to be productive. The cap iron is my preferred method of tearout management, and I believe that to be true of Derek as well. I actually have a 42 deg frog in my #7 right now to optimize surface quality and ease of planing, and IIRC Derek was my inspiration for doing that. It produces tearout-free results in domestic hardwoods when used with a properly adjusted cap iron, even when planing against the grain.

    Search for "David Weaver setting a cap iron" for a useful starting point. His document is on a "rival" forum so I can't link it without violating SMC TOS.
    I will definitely check that out and thanks Patrick!

  11. #11
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    Maybe a little "Show & Tell"?

    IMG_2053 (640x480).jpg
    The Heft & Hubris No. 8. All 10 pounds of it..
    IMG_2055 (640x480).jpg
    I sat a No.7c beside it....bit of a difference?

    Laid them on their sides..
    IMG_2056 (640x480).jpg
    Then a No. 6c..
    IMG_2057 (640x480).jpg
    And then, CAREFULLY, a No. 5-1/2
    IMG_2058 (640x480).jpg
    So, which one gets the most work?
    IMG_2059 (640x480).jpg
    That would depend ON the work itself....the No. 7 gets the most out of this mob...
    As for the difference between a "c" model and a smooth sole model?
    IMG_2061 (640x480).jpg
    These are my Stanley No. 5s.....one is a tad more cambered, but that is about the only difference I find...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Maybe a little "Show & Tell"?

    IMG_2053 (640x480).jpg
    The Heft & Hubris No. 8. All 10 pounds of it..
    IMG_2055 (640x480).jpg
    I sat a No.7c beside it....bit of a difference?

    Laid them on their sides..
    IMG_2056 (640x480).jpg
    Then a No. 6c..
    IMG_2057 (640x480).jpg
    And then, CAREFULLY, a No. 5-1/2
    IMG_2058 (640x480).jpg
    So, which one gets the most work?
    IMG_2059 (640x480).jpg
    That would depend ON the work itself....the No. 7 gets the most out of this mob...
    As for the difference between a "c" model and a smooth sole model?
    IMG_2061 (640x480).jpg
    These are my Stanley No. 5s.....one is a tad more cambered, but that is about the only difference I find...
    Heft and Hubris... I like that. I appreciate you taking the time to do this and it helps a lot. I was having a hard time visualizing the 7 compared to the 6 that I have. I didn't know if it would be too similar, hence the 8, but this shows the difference really well and the length is more significant than I was thinking

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Harrison View Post
    Two part question…
    First I’m gearing up to order a Lie-Nielsen jointer, either a 7 or 8. The largest plane I have now is an older Stanley #6. I like the idea of the 8, but in practice I’m worried it’s too wide to edge joint 3/4” which is what I mainly work with, but sometimes thinner. I’m not worried about pushing the weight around. This is making me lean towards a 7 though since it seems a little more versatile since I’d like to be able to use it on 1/2” material if I needed to. Am I over-analyzing it? I’ve never used a plane larger than my 6.
    Second part kind of depends on the first. I bought my first LN plane a few months ago and love it. I got a 4-1/2 and I use it way more than my Stanley #4. I feel like my #4 is too light now so I’m always reaching for the 4-1/2. I opted for the standard frog instead of a higher angle and put a slight back bevel on it when dealing with tricky grain with works for the most part. Am I missing out not having a dedicated higher angle frog? If I order a 7 then should I order a 50 or 55 degree frog and swap with the 4-1/2 or not worry about it since I use the 4-1/2 so much and it’s not just for dedicated situations? So many options!
    Thanks for any help!!
    Howdy Steven and a belated Welcome to the Creek. If you are in the Portland, OR area send me a Private Message if you would like to take a test drive of the two sizes to see if that helps you make up your mind.

    The choice of the planes one uses is different for each person. If you tend to use your #6 in place of a #5 because it feels more comfortable, then a #8 might be the right plane for you.

    On the other hand a #4-1/2, a #6 and a #7 all have the same size blade. This would allow for a back bevel on one to swap around if needed or have a spare blade to fit all three planes.

    From my own experience, at one time a #7 seemed to be fine for me and having a #8 didn't seem necessary. Then one day while out for a ride with the wife we stopped at an antique shop. Turns out the guy was a plane collector. He had a complete no damage #8 at a price below my ability to refuse. It is a bit of an odd duck. It kind of fits in between the cracks of a type 6 and a type 7. The lateral adjuster doesn't have the patent dates on it that would be on one of that vintage.

    Now it tends to get used more than my #7.

    Both planes are very well suited to the job, but for some reason the added weight of the #8 just feels better in my hands.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #14
    Record 8, Stanley and LN7, plus various woodies. LN7 is my preference; there are few times when the extra length and weight of the 8 is beneficial. With a humidity-controlled shop, the woodies are a good option as well.

  15. #15
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    I like my bailey #7c (with hock iron) for the tasks you've listed.

    (I would even give some thought to looking for a good-condition bailey over the LN in order to save weight).

    I've heard some people prefer a low-angle jointer because it has a lower mass and might be easier to keep balanced on an edge. I only have a bevel-up #5 and the bevel-down #7.

    If jointing a thin board, you may end up using a long-grain shooting board on your bench. I'd probably use my LV LAJ for that (same one I use with my endgrain shooting board)

    Matt

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