Combination Plane and Lee Valley feedback

[Stewie Simpson]

William; if your keen to apply beading profiles on a greater diversity of timbers you may want to consider purchasing some dedicated Side Bead moulding planes. As outlined previously by others, there are a number of planemaker's within the USA that can provide that service. I chose to deal through Phil Edwards from the U.K. I placed an order with Phil on the 5/9 for the 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" Side Beads in Right and Left hand format with 55 degree beds. Phil is also supplying me with a set of Snipes Bills and Side Rounds. To better understand the difference between unsprung and sprung moulding planes, the following is a worthwhile read. http://homepages.sover.net/~nichael/...ers/hkean.html

Hopefully things work out to your satisfaction with your newly acquired Combo Plane.

regards Stewie;

[William Fretwell]

William; if your keen to apply beading profiles on a greater diversity of timbers you may want to consider purchasing some dedicated Side Bead moulding planes. As outlined previously by others, there are a number of planemaker's within the USA that can provide that service. I chose to deal through Phil Edwards from the U.K. I placed an order with Phil on the 5/9 for the 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" Side Beads in Right and Left hand format with 55 degree beds. Phil is also supplying me with a set of Snipes Bills and Side Rounds. To better understand the difference between unsprung and sprung moulding planes, the following is a worthwhile read. http://homepages.sover.net/~nichael/...ers/hkean.html

Hopefully things work out to your satisfaction with your newly acquired Combo Plane.

regards Stewie;

Thanks Stewie, That's exactly what I was thinking for beads! I hope the plane will do grooves a lot better so I will try a few more cuts.

[Mike Brady]

I recently returned my LV combination plane after determining that it wasn't for me. I did take it to the shop of a friend of mine who also has the plane and likes his very much. We shared the cutters that we bought and tried dadoes, beads and such. My needs can be satisfied by the Small Plow plane that I got several years ago. Once the shared knowledge about this plane grows, outcomes will probably improve. Threads like this can help that, as would would more information from the maker.

[William Fretwell]

I have the Combo and they haven't reached out to me, nor have I had racking problems ("wrack" is an old English word for "wreck" and is probably not what you were trying to say).

Combos are among the most difficult of all planes to use, so IMO Lee Valley took a bit of a risk by bringing this to market. It is inevitable that some customers will be dissatisfied with any such plane, and that's going to be particularly true for folks who expect the sort of "fire-and-forget" ease of use that many LV tools deliver.

I'm sure that LV recognized that inherent "brand risk" when they decided to offer the Combo plane, and it would not surprise me if they've implemented some sort of program to identify and reach out to "customers of concern". They could prioritize customers for outreach based on purchasing habits or (in your case) historical face-to-face interactions, for example.

In short I don't see any reason to doubt your account, though I also think that your expectations for ease of use may be unrealistic for this sort of plane. They inherently require some learning and/or practice.

My old english chartered mechanical engineer father used wrack. Your 'customers of concern' idea is hilarious! There are collectors and users in the tool world, I'm a user. All my tools get used and I've done so for a very long time. Clearly I expect to learn a new tool and perhaps full extension edge beads are not possible in tricky wood. Clearly I'm not the first to find this as they called me! Never in 30 years have they called me except for back orders arriving.

[Pat Barry]

My old english chartered mechanical engineer father used wrack. Your 'customers of concern' idea is hilarious! There are collectors and users in the tool world, I'm a user. All my tools get used and I've done so for a very long time. Clearly I expect to learn a new tool and perhaps full extension edge beads are not possible in tricky wood. Clearly I'm not the first to find this as they called me! Never in 30 years have they called me except for back orders arriving.

There is one thing that hasn't been mentioned regarding this issue you experienced and that is, the reference side needs to be exactly parallel to the side you are cutting. If not, there will be racking. Could you verify the parallelism? Secondly, equally important, is the tool set up with the guide exactly parallel to the main body? With so many adjustments it would be easy to get one off just enough, and it wouldn't take much for the operation to be doomed to failure. Large amounts of torque would be created and you couldnt overcome that.
Once the cut goes bad, for whatever reason, trying to 'fix' it will be much more difficult. Starting off with parallel sides on the board and the tool and taking very light cuts is super important.

[Graham Haydon]

Excellent tip from Stewie. Further, if I wanted to work a small bead on a edge I'd rather use a screw in a block of wood. It leaves a much more crisp, narrow and fine detail. Contrast that with typical multi plane irons of any brand http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Pag...30,41182,43698 which leaves results that look like they came from a router cutter or shaper.

[Rob Lee]

Hi,

Am at the cottage, with spurious internet. It is also Thanksgiving weekend up here...so a bit tough to get ahold of staff, so I will have to go on my memory...which, while I trust is accurate, I will still have to verify on Tuesday.
Firstly, I am aware of only one ticket opened against this plane, and that was for some epoxy bleed-through at the base of some handles. We pulled and checked stock for this, though some customers may have planes with this. Of course, we will put right any with this cosmetic issue.

There is no customer call program in place... I suspect Mr Fretwell was called by London store staff as a follow-up...just being proactive. I still have to verify this.

The planes are in continuous production at this time, so there are no different batches.

One of the first customers to receive the plane did note that it was difficult to get the fence onto the rods - but once on, the fence moved freely. We diagnosed this as an order of operations error....the rods in the body were being clamped in place before the fence was mounted. The precision to which we machine holes in fence and body is such that there is only enough play in the system to assemble if everything is left loose. This is where I expect the store contacted Mr Fretwell - to see if he had a similar issue. I have no idea by whom or how the term wracking was introduced into the conversation, though it seems to have been. Most likely it was used before the assembly sequence explanation was diagnosed.

As with any fenced plane, there is a learning curve to its set-up and use...and this one is no different. I will ask the store to set up a session with their Veritas champion (product expert) at his convenience to work through any issues he is having. This is something we are always pleased to do, for any product.

Cheers,

Rob Lee

[William Fretwell]

There is one thing that hasn't been mentioned regarding this issue you experienced and that is, the reference side needs to be exactly parallel to the side you are cutting. If not, there will be racking. Could you verify the parallelism? Secondly, equally important, is the tool set up with the guide exactly parallel to the main body? With so many adjustments it would be easy to get one off just enough, and it wouldn't take much for the operation to be doomed to failure. Large amounts of torque would be created and you couldnt overcome that.
Once the cut goes bad, for whatever reason, trying to 'fix' it will be much more difficult. Starting off with parallel sides on the board and the tool and taking very light cuts is super important.

Pat you are quite right, all those things are important. The rod ends were all set the same, just fully seated, as the rods are the same length that makes it parallel.
When the cutter catches even a little it twists. You try again until you see one or more knobs are loose, then the cut is in trouble, then it gets worse. Clearly I have to hone the cutter to eliminate that variable. All tools have limitations. Holding the plane level is not easy for a bead cut at full extension. I'm sure I will find cuts it does well, drawer bottom rebate springs to mind; however with all those cutters it has to do far more.

[William Fretwell]

Rob Lee is arranging what I hope will be a hands on with a Veritas expert at their closest store. I hope to make a small mess on the floor!

[Frederick Skelly]

Rob Lee is arranging what I hope will be a hands on with a Veritas expert at their closest store. I hope to make a small mess on the floor!

Appreciate you letting us know this William.
Hope the lesson is time well spent.
Fred

[Patrick Chase]

One of the first customers to receive the plane did note that it was difficult to get the fence onto the rods - but once on, the fence moved freely. We diagnosed this as an order of operations error....the rods in the body were being clamped in place before the fence was mounted. The precision to which we machine holes in fence and body is such that there is only enough play in the system to assemble if everything is left loose.

Hah, I learned that the very first day I had the plane. Pretty easy to figure out, though.

If you've ever used a 45/55 then one thing you notice right away is how much "tighter" everything is on the LV.

[Patrick Chase]

My old english chartered mechanical engineer father used wrack. Your 'customers of concern' idea is hilarious! There are collectors and users in the tool world, I'm a user. All my tools get used and I've done so for a very long time. Clearly I expect to learn a new tool and perhaps full extension edge beads are not possible in tricky wood. Clearly I'm not the first to find this as they called me! Never in 30 years have they called me except for back orders arriving.

You're making incorrect assumptions about what I meant. "Collectors" wouldn't be as much of a concern as "users" for the simple reason that collectors by definition don't subject their tools to heavy use.

It sounds like they don't do what I hypothesized in any case, but FWIW my "armchair profile" of a problem customer is a "user" who doesn't have a lot of prior exposure to this class of plane (combos, ploughs, etc). Based on your comments in this thread that description appears to fit you fairly well.

[Jim Koepke]

Rob Lee is arranging what I hope will be a hands on with a Veritas expert at their closest store. I hope to make a small mess on the floor!

This is possibly the greatest part about Lee Valley. Well at least for those who live close enough to the store.

Please let us know how this works for you.

FWIW my "armchair profile" of a problem customer is a "user" who doesn't have a lot of prior exposure to this class of plane (combos, ploughs, etc).

From the other side of the "armchair" this is potentially a fantastic customer. Once they have been shown the ways of the tool they can become an evangelist for the store.

Sometimes the glass is half full, sometimes it is half empty. Then sometimes all it needs is a few ice cubes.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

From the other side of the "armchair" this is potentially a fantastic customer. Once they have been shown the ways of the tool they can become an evangelist for the store.

Sometimes the glass is half full, sometimes it is half empty. Then sometimes all it needs is a few ice cubes.

Oh absolutely. We've all been there at some point with every new sort of tool we adopt. I meant "problem" in the sense of "likely to have an initially negative reaction", i.e. the concern I touched on in a previous post.

[Noah Magnuson]

I am also trying to understand what the need for full (or any) extension is in the process of beading an edge. The question was asked by a couple of others. If I missed the clarification, I apologize. Could you elaborate on what exactly you are doing, and maybe there can be a better approach that will give you good results?

... Holding the plane level is not easy for a bead cut at full extension. I'm sure I will find cuts it does well, drawer bottom rebate springs to mind; however with all those cutters it has to do far more.