New Cyclone Dust Collector - Opinions wanted!

[Rick Costa]

Hello Everyone,

Haven't done a lot of posting but I've done a lot of reading on the thread which has never guided me wrong. We've got a very diverse community here so I'm looking for some opinions. I've got a nice home shop, (built a stand-alone 20x40 building with AC and a bathroom!) and I'm pretty happy with all the tools I've got in there with a few exceptions. One is my Dust Collector, I'm running a Delta bagged unit piped into a 6" trunk line going up to the ceiling with drops along its path. While it works and I've upgraded to a better bag it is from end state. I'm looking to go with a 3 hp cyclone and some candidates are as follows:

• Baileigh DC-2100c ($1625 shipped/No Tax)
• Jet JCDC3 ($1795 shipped/No Tax)
• Laguna C|Flux 3 ($1619 + $75ship + Tax = $1810)
• Clearvue CV1800 ($2045 shipped/No Tax) + Cost of a Drum
• Grizzly G0441 ($1575 + 109ship = $1684) +$300 for a stand though I would likely wall mount.

I've got the room to do any of those though I'd probably relocate the unit to the area near my electric panel (200 amp stand-alone service for the shop = lots of flexibility).

Right now I'm tempted by the price on the Baleigh unit as it seems to have good power, a large drum, and (if the specs are to be believed) a slightly quieter operations point. I have seen little to no reviews on said unit other than a handful and a company provided video. Also, looks like it and the Jet are twins with minor tweaks which makes sense as I'm sure they are made by the same company. Portability is not a major concern as I said it will be piped in. I appreciate any opinions especially those that own any of the above or similar units. I know Oneida makes some quality units but they are even more expensive and I'd like to keep it somewhere around $2k-ish (more money for other tools).

This is purely a hobby shop and I have no production needs so it's basically for me working alone or with a buddy or two every so often. I have a SawStop Cabinet saw, 8" Helical Jointer, 15" planer, and a shaper. Those are the main tools connected to the system.

I've included an old picture from the shop (man its come a long way) to give an idea of setup.

Thanks for any advice!!!!!

[Wade Lippman]

I don't know the units well enough to vote, but I built a stand for my Grizzly with 8 2x4s. I can't imagine why a woodworker would spend $300 on a stand.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I would go with the CV1800. It has a longer cyclone body that theoretically should provide better separation of fine particles before reaching the filter. All the others have the short / squat cyclone bodies that are generally considered to provide poorer levels of fine-dust separation. This is particularly important if you are running the cyclone with filters as better separation will mean a fine-filter won't get clogged as quickly. This is also likely why the others generally use coarser / poorer filters - otherwise they would quickly clog up.

The CV1800 filters have a high Merv rating (15 I think - I don't run filters on mine and instead vent straight outside) (Merv - independent organisation providing accredited, reliable filter ratings), whereas the others do not have proper Merv or Hepa rated filters (unless you go for a Laguna P-flux with Merv 16) so you can be confident the CV filters will capture a higher proportion of the fine dust. Also the filter area of the CV1800 is nearly 3 times greater than the others. The larger area means there will be a smaller pressure drop across the filters and therefore better airflow. It also means the filters will take longer to clog. It also indirectly points to the filters being finer (capturing more dust) and therefore requiring more area to not restrict airflow.

The only down-side of the clearvue is it is loud, but this is quite easily managed with some well-placed sound insulation or by building a cupboard to house the unit in. I would be surprised if the other units weren't also very loud. The CV is very quick and easy to assemble / install so don't let that put you off.

I am a little biased as I have a CV1800, but mine works very well and I did a lot of research before deciding on it. I would buy the same again if I had to replace it.

The only other units I would consider would be the larger 5hp Oneida and the Felder RL160 / 200.

Cheers,

Dom

[John K Jordan]

People tend to recommend what they bought unless they are unhappy with it. Many of us have no experience with cyclones other than the one model we have. The choice to buy that model may have been based on research, cost, availability, review, recommendation, opinion of the company, or whim. People tend to.... (repeat paragraph)

I have no experience with any cyclone other than the ClearVue 1800 5hp model. The price I see on the website is $1695 with filters. I used a $30 metal trash can for a collection bin. I have 9' ceilings and it just barely fits with the bin I chose. I can hardly believe how well it works. (I monitor how effectively it picks up dust with a Dylos Pro laser-based air quality monitor.) The suction will probably pull your hand off if you were not careful. It is loud so I installed it in a sound-insulated closet with my air compressor. I didn't know they sold a 3hp version. I purchased this after reading everything on the Bill Pentz web site, reading forums including and vendor forums, and consulting a Ouija board. I have not been disappointed.

It would be difficult to make useful recommendations without studying your dust collection needs, electrical power availability, shop layout, duct layout plan, size of ducts, distances of runs, installation space. If you have to make compromises in the installation a stronger cyclone may make up the difference. I'm sure that is the case in my shop. The danger of installing an underpowered cyclone is it might not work as well as you hoped and either you will never know the difference or you will spend at least that much again getting the right one. All I know is having more than the minimum dust collector for a given installation doesn't hurt anything.

I'm not participating in your poll since I would not buy any of them - I already have one. From what I read almost any cyclone will work better than the old bag chip collector.

If comparing based on cost, make sure you are comparing equivalent machines.

JKJ

[David Kumm]

you really can't vote on a system unless you know the size pipe, the length of the runs, and the machines themselves. Not having that info, logic would favor the CV system because the larger impeller and motor can somewhat compensate for screwing up the details. Impellers that pull greater cfm at higher pressure tend to be louder ( more loud ? ) than lower pressure units. The design of the curved blades helps to silence the noise but sometimes at the cost of cfm. Particularly important if you don't get the piping sized correctly. You really need to lay out your design and machine placement first. Each of the above units will have different pipe size requirements to maximise flow in your situation. If you are worried about getting that right, go with a larger impeller- even a CV max- and while you may underutilize your system and possibly overpay for what you need, you will take less risk of spending for something that doesn't work as well as you hoped with no option but starting over. Dave

[Rick Costa]

you really can't vote on a system unless you know the size pipe, the length of the runs, and the machines themselves.

As mentioned I have a 6" trunkline that goes directly to the current DC and will do so regardless of placement for the future unit. The line goes up to the ceiling and then turns on a smooth 90 elbow straight run across the shop ceiling. There is a drop about 10 feet into the run with a Wye fitting that goes down 6 feet of smooth pipe to about 10' of flex 4" to my table saw. The next drop at about the 20' mark is a 6" drop to the floor (about 13' vertical rise) split into 4" connections for the planer, shaper, and jointer each with its own connection of flex hose about 6' long. The run then terminates at the back wall of the shop and has one final 4" drop with about a 6' vertical run.

Each run has a blast gate and every gate is closed when not used.

[Rick Costa]

ClearVue 1800 5hp model. The price I see on the website is $1695 with filters.

JKJ

I think you may be looking at the one without filters as the one with filters is the price I stated above. I realize it is a 5hp unit, which is a plus and I should have mentioned it in my original post. Also, American made and a top quality motor give it a plus in my book. Power is also not an issue, as I mentioned I have a 200 amp service for the shop alone. While I'm using a vast amount of breakers with the many power connections I've run in the shop I still have ample space in the 40 slot panel to add a few more as needed as I understand the Clearvue needs a 30 amp connection. I have several L6-20p connections already in strategic locations but if I move the unit near the panel I can add a 30 amp one there with no effort.

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/cycl...h-filters.html

[Rick Costa]

I don't know the units well enough to vote, but I built a stand for my Grizzly with 8 2x4s. I can't imagine why a woodworker would spend $300 on a stand.

I certainly wouldn't spend the 300 on it either. I'd probably wall mount it if anything.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

As mentioned I have a 6" trunkline that goes directly to the current DC and will do so regardless of placement for the future unit. The line goes up to the ceiling and then turns on a smooth 90 elbow straight run across the shop ceiling. There is a drop about 10 feet into the run with a Wye fitting that goes down 6 feet of smooth pipe to about 10' of flex 4" to my table saw. The next drop at about the 20' mark is a 6" drop to the floor (about 13' vertical rise) split into 4" connections for the planer, shaper, and jointer each with its own connection of flex hose about 6' long. The run then terminates at the back wall of the shop and has one final 4" drop with about a 6' vertical run.

Each run has a blast gate and every gate is closed when not used.

Do yourself a huge favour and run 6" duct directly to each machine, modifying the ports to suit. Running 10' of 4" flex will severely constrain your airflow even with the CV1800. That will make more difference than any difference between the choices in terms of airflow.

[David Kumm]

I didn't see that you weren't upgrading the pipe. I'm not a big fan of 6" but the larger diameter impeller will compensate some for that. CV used to use a Leeson motor and may still do although it was a smaller frame lighter unit than a similar Oneida motor. It ran a 7/8" shaft vs the 1 1/8" normally used in a 5 hp motor. Not a deal breaker but still worth evaluating. Keep in mind there are going to be trade offs with all of these units as pricing dictates some compromises. I'm as guilty as any of wanting to save on stuff, but DC is one area that it doesn't pay to skimp on. As you age, you keep adding lighting and the lung thing gets more and more important . Dave

[Bill Adamsen]

Quiet is good. If all else equal, I'd get the lowest decibel system (impeller).

To Dave's point, a larger main trunk is preferred for a number of reasons. One of the goals of dust collection engineering is speed in the verticals to keep dust in suspension (move it vertically), and large enough horizontals to keep resistance low while still moving dust. Also why I'm a fan of high main trunks.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't know many of the systems you asked about but I'll comment on a Laguna that I bought. The cyclone part of the system just does not work well - too many fines (and a bit larger) make it to the filter. I put a Super Dust Deputy in front of the DC and it made a major improvement.

So my advice is watch out for those short cyclones.

Mike

[Mike Kees]

I think you are doing this backwards. It is more important to figure out the airflow needed for each machine and work back from your machine to get the duct sizes designed right (size and fittings) to maintain proper airflow. Once you do this then you can shop for the collector. This will ensure that Cfm of the collector is sufficient and your system works well. I read everything I could find and the single best source of info ( for me) for planning a system was Sandor Nalzenky(or something) book. Good luck with your decisions and if you have specific questions post here. When I worked on setting up my system I received a lot of good advice/help from people here on SMC. Mike.

[John K Jordan]

I think you may be looking at the one without filters as the one with filters is the price I stated above. I realize it is a 5hp unit, which is a plus and I should have mentioned it in my original post.

This is the cyclone with filters for $1695: http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/cv18...h-filters.html

You are looking at the bundle. It includes the mounting bracket (easy to make, instructions in the manual), the cleanout box (easy to make) and the electrical box. I bought the electrical box and afterwards realized I could have duplicated it for a fraction of the cost. It consists of a metal box, the outlets on short pieces of conduit, an inexpensive contactor (relay) and a wireless remote that was $16 from Amazon at the time. (I bought three to get extra remote transmitter fobs). Probably wouldn't take $50 to duplicate it once you know what it is.

Some have mentioned here the separation efficiency of the ClearVue due to the long cone. I was surprised at how much of the fines made it into the bin instead of going to the filters - when I empty the bin it is mostly powder (I use it with drum sander, table saw, a lot of bandsawing, and sanding at the lathe.) I've been running mine on a hobby basis for about 4 years and probably don't have two teaspoons of talcum-fine dust in the cleanout. I haven't cleaned it out yet.

It's good your realize it's 5hp. I was afraid you thought it was 3hp since you wrote "I'm looking to go with a 3 hp cyclone and some candidates are..." If other candidates are 3hp, that's another big selling point for the ClearVue, I think.

The down side is you have to assemble it yourself. However, anyone who has a shop in the first place can handle that! The difficult thing for me was not assembling, mounting, or wiring the thing but planning the installation. In fitting it into the closet I faced a major challenge - how to route the 6" intake duct to ensure it would connect perfectly with my choice of ductwork distribution - above the ceiling, snaked through the trusses. So I could design it beforehand instead of trying to crowbar it in later I assembled the cyclone and set it upside down on the shop floor and drew the outline of my planned closet on the floor to represent the closet ceiling. Then I created cardboard cutouts to mock up the intake ductwork with the exact angles I needed to make it go through the ceiling and the right place. I was rewarded with no unpleasant surprises when I finally installed it in the finished closet!

I really like having the ducts above the ceiling although that in itself was a huge effort. The limited space is shared with the HVAC flex ducts. I was able to put all of my drops where I wanted them without notching a single truss.

AA060_IMG_20141228_194915_667.jpg DC_IMG_20141228_194845_465.jpg

If you are interested, this is what my electrical boxes inside look like. Just the one in the middle is for the cyclone. The other are sub-panels, the one on the left has heavy copper feeding both the cyclone and the 5hp air compressor. Switches are a motor disconect for the cyclone and an enable/disable switch for the controller (to insure it couldn't possibly start up while I was emptying the bin).

IMG_20130726_135457.jpg electrical_closet_small_c.jpg

I also rewired the remote controller and bin sensor so it made more sense to me, putting everything in one box and eliminating the mess of wires you get if you follow the instructions, the only thing about the entire package I was not satisfied with.

electrical_DC_controller_box_ces.jpg electrical_shop_s.jpg

Note that the control box is mounted in the shop, not in the closet. The switch is wired in series with the one in the closet to disable the entire system from operation. I can see the bright red pilot "enabled" light from across the shop.

This is the picture ClearVue sent me of a typical installation. I am sure it would work fine (and I'm not slamming it if it belongs to someone here) but the electrical engineer hiding inside me wanted something cleaner without things to snag since my controller lives in the main shop instead of behind a wall.

DC-Controls_typical.jpg

JKJ

[Larry Frank]

In my opinion, buying any of the short cone cyclones is a mistake. They just do not do a very good job of separation. I would get either the CV1800 or an Oneida Dust Gorilla Pro. Both of these are very good units and do a great job of separation.

The only way I would even think about one of the short cone ones is if I did not have enough height in the shop.

I have the Oneida 5 hp Super Dust Gorilla and ran 6" duct. I have not enlarged any machine ports and the 4" ports work fine. I have measured the flow with the 4" ports and is more than adequate. Would it help to go to 6" ports....yes. With the larger 5 hp cyclones, it is really not necessary. Many people think that it is necessary to go to the larger ports but have not seen them post actual data.