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Thread: Planing Thin Stock & Combination Plane Observations

  1. #1
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    Planing Thin Stock & Combination Plane Observations

    Recently there was a question about planing stops. My impression was the original poster does not have a tail vise, so this may not work for them. My purpose with this is to show how a piece can be held between dogs and planed without problems of looseness or bowing.

    Planing Thin Stock.jpg

    The stack in the vise opposite the workpiece not only keeps the vise from wracking it prevents applying enough pressure to the work to cause bowing.

    In this case the workpiece is less than 1/4". My bad for forgetting to measure it. That can be done later if anyone cares.

    It doesn't show in the picture because of the plane being over one end but this piece has reversing grain. The 'cathedrals' or spires point toward the center from each end. This kind of grain can cause a lot of problems with any but the lightest shavings.

    Next up is using a Wards Master #45 (Stanley #45) to apply a pair of beads to a piece of scrap:

    Piece of Scrap (Grain Swirl).jpg

    Notice the waviness of the grain. This is not as bad as a reversing grain yet it can still cause problems.

    The single 5/16" bead blade was touched up before starting the first bead:

    Starting the Bead.jpg

    It is not clearly noticeable in this picture but for a clean finish it is important to keep the fence against the work front to back through the full length of the planing stroke. Just as important is to keep the fence vertically against the work.

    The Wards Master, of all my #45s, is the most finicky in its set up. It appears the moveable skate is a touch tweaked. If considerable care ins't taken to set the skates parallel they will start binding in the cut or cause the plane to drift. It is easy enough to have the cut drift with a perfect plane if one doesn't pay careful attention to the work at hand. One indication of this is having a problem with keeping the fence against the work after the cut has been started.

    When starting the first bead the blade was set to take a healthy cut and the work was done for speed. That is when unwanted stuff happens:

    Clogged.jpg

    DOH! Thicker shavings clog quicker. Especially with bead cutters when the top of the bead and all around the side is being cut and is trying to get out.

    The second cut was made with a much lighter cut and much more attention paid to the work at hand.

    Tearout.jpg

    There is still some tear out on the lower bead. It is nowhere near as bad as on the top bead. The edges along the quirk also came out smoother than those on the first bead.

    Notice how the grain runs near the tear out. This is where the grain is doing a wave.

    After a bit of using a combination plane, looking at wood has become different. There are moments when a piece presents itself as just right for an accent such as a bead or other shaped edge decoration.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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    It seems to me that I always have more trouble with soft wood rather than maple, oak or walnut. Do you find the same? Do you out any back bevel on your beading irons? You always have some interesting items laying around on your bench. I think the OP in that other thread started out with one of the most difficult cuts for a combo plane and I don't believe that LV has a cam for an option yet on the combo. How about your thoughts on that. I respect your greater experience than myself with combos and have picked up some tips from you in the past.
    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    DOH! Thicker shavings clog quicker. Especially with bead cutters when the top of the bead and all around the side is being cut and is trying to get out.
    Indeed, and combo planes have inherently compromised shaving ejection to begin with. Score another advantage for side-escapement molding planes. If only they didn't cost so much for a decently complete collection of profiles. As Matt Bickford has documented you only really need hollows+rounds, rabbets, snipe-bills, and side-beads to create any conceivable profile, but that's still a lot of planes.

    I just got 4 32" 16/4 beech billets from Horizon and am planning to supplement my combos with woodies for my favorite profiles. At almost $20/bdft including shipping it's a lot to pay for Beech, but they're of remarkable quality with straight, uniform grain in almost perfect orientation. IIRC Old Street (Clark & Williams) now sources their blanks from Horizon and I can see why.

    It's ironic that Stewie and I came up with more or less the same idea at exactly the same time. I ordered the blanks ~2 days before he posted about irons.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 10-07-2017 at 4:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    It seems to me that I always have more trouble with soft wood rather than maple, oak or walnut. Do you find the same? Do you out any back bevel on your beading irons? You always have some interesting items laying around on your bench. I think the OP in that other thread started out with one of the most difficult cuts for a combo plane and I don't believe that LV has a cam for an option yet on the combo. How about your thoughts on that. I respect your greater experience than myself with combos and have picked up some tips from you in the past.
    Jim
    Hi Jim,

    My work is mostly on soft woods. They can be problematic. The hard woods, in my experience, have less tendency to splinter or tear out when the grain is straight.

    My irons are not back beveled, at least not intentionally. A few of my irons may have a little back bevel left from a previous owner, but most of those have been honed away by now.

    The items on the bench at this time are from working on a drawer for a piece in progress. There may be pictures of this at a later date. My favorite feature on this is one of the drawers is invisible. (hidden or disguised may be a better description.)

    The cam rest is a tricky thing to use. Mine only gets used to support the plane above the work when doing stopped cuts. For making cuts far from the fence it can help to keep the plane assembly from getting out of true, but it needs continual adjustment with each pass to work properly.

    Thanks for the kind words and it makes me happy to have helped.

    As Matt Bickford has documented you only really need hollows+rounds, rabbets, snipe-bills, and side-beads to create any conceivable profile, but that's still a lot of planes.
    Don't forget the center bead planes. 1/4" rabbet planes are not common.

    My space needs to be reworked to accommodate more woodies. All my side bead planes are still stored in boxes.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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    The 45 I had before the current one had a cam rest the one I have now was complete except the cam. I had to let the cam go with the other plane so had to get one from Patrick Leach. After learning to use it I could not go without. For the cuts where needed I just tighten it enough to balance the plane and you can just push down and get it to move. I don't know why but I thought I got that from you a few years back. The back bevel works very well. I have a theory as to why but a long story.
    Jim

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    For the cuts where needed I just tighten it enough to balance the plane and you can just push down and get it to move. I don't know why but I thought I got that from you a few years back.
    That may be. Since then more learning on how to use the plane and keeping it upright has made it not as needed. Though the idea of a loose cam rest is certainly older than me.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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    It's ironic that Stewie and I came up with more or less the same idea at exactly the same time. I ordered the blanks ~2 days before he posted about irons.
    Truly amazing timing Patrick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Truly amazing timing Patrick.
    Actually it's more amazing than I thought. I sent the payment to Horizon (via PayPal, happy to share my invoice if you don't believe me) at 1:59 PM Pacific on 9/29. You made your post about irons at 7:44 PM Pacific on the same day.

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    Ease up there Patrick. I didn't suggest anything other than your timing.

    Stewie;

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    Today a bit more time was taken on working thin stock. After measuring it there seemed to be more to do so a video was made:

    https://youtu.be/jsa0bdnW14U

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    You don't need center beads if you've got snipe bills and hollows.
    This sounds like three planes doing the job of one.

    Some of my work has multiple beads or reeds which appeal to me. It is a lot less work to do it in one operation. Also less of a recipe for problems trying to cut just one bead using snipe bills and hollows. This is likely especially the case if one is trying to cut something on the order of 1/8 - 3/8".

    Another obstacle to this is the cost. Snipe bill planes are few and far between and an old pair on ebay may cost as much as a vintage combination plane.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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    Jim; its possible Patrick was making reference to the following info; https://www.hntgordon.com.au/using-h...ll-planes.html

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    LOL The whole thing about wooden planes just tickles me. I would agree that a dedicated wooden beading plane could do a better job. I think the price quoted for one was 265 times 2 for right and left hand version. Then do that again when you want to go from 1/4" to 3/8" and so on and so on. Or you could just do 3/8" on everything. I think the irons for the LV plow are $20. Thinking out loud here.
    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Jim; its possible Patrick was making reference to the following info; https://www.hntgordon.com.au/using-h...ll-planes.html
    I deleted the comment because I felt it didn't add much, but yeah, that's basically it. I hadn't seen that specific page, but you can get the same information from a number of sources. In my case I've been working my way through Matt Bickford's book.

    Stewie, out of curiosity whose floats do you use? I know you're in contact with Phil Edwards, and Don Wilwol posted a very favorable review of the ones Phil makes last year. Is that what you're using, and if so what do you think of them?

    I currently have a hodgepodge of Liogier, L-N, and Iwasaki floats FWIW.

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    James; your not going to find too many traditional moulding planes bedded at 45 degrees. It defies sound logic that was well established before Stanley Co. was even a thought bubble.

    Stewie;

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