Midsized Crosscut Saw?

[steven c newman]

Rub the tooth line with a candle, sawdust will not load up the gullets. A Disston #4 backsaw is always 11ppi.....I have no trouble cutting 1x 4 Maple in that mitre box I use.

[James Waldron]

Jim,

My xcut backsaw is 15 tpi and it loaded up badly cutting across the 4" face. Do you find 12 tpi has sufficient gullet space for that wide a cut?

Tom

12 tpi is fine if your saw plate and teeth are properly waxed and you use full strokes to make sure the gullets get a chance to clear out. A 14" plate makes that easy. And sharp is important, as always. The panel saw is faster of course, but not by that much when I factor in the logistics of pulling the saw out of the till and clearing the inevitable "stuff" off the saw bench.

To each his own, of course.

[Pete Taran]

While 12 point panel saws do show up, the most common size is 10 point followed closely by 11. As for backsaws, 13 ppi is the most common size found on regular backsaws. Mitre saws used with a box are always 12. At least when it comes to Disston. Not sure where Steve scored his 11 point backsaws unless he cut them himself, that is not a size I've ever seen before on a Disston.

[steven c newman]

Per the Disstonian Institute....Disston made 11 ppi backsaws as a No. 4.....and made them for mitre boxes as well. You will find a "Made expressly for.." as part of the etch. Have a 5 x 28 made for a Stanley 358, and a Millers Falls/Langdon 5 x 30' Both are Disston No. 4s, with 11 ppi. There is also a 4 x 26 and a 4 x 24 No. 4, 11ppi saws in the shop. These are used in my #2246 mitre box by Stanley. I have been using a 14" long 11ppi No. 4 backsaw ( filed Rip) as my joinery saw...

I do have a D-8 20" 10ppi in the shop, along with a D-8 8ppi at 26"....

[steven c newman]

There are 4 panel saws hanging there....20" long and less..
IMG_2287.jpg
There is an Atkins in there, and a few Disstons....including the 10 ppi D-8...

[Pete Taran]

Steve,

I think your problem is you actually think you can make an assessment on reality based on what is written rather than what exists in the real world. In all the Disston catalogs I have, for the #4 it just shows that "Rip teeth available on request". It doesn't even show what the range of possibilities are for teeth on backsaws. The standard tooth size varied with length. Here is what I've found by filing and collecting Disston backsaws for 25 years:

16" #4 12 ppi cc
14" #4 13 ppi cc
12" #4 14 ppi cc
10 #4 15 ppi cc
8" #4 16 ppi cc

That is certainly not to say that other tooth sizes don't exist, but the standard off the rack sizes are above. As with all companies, Disston would cut teeth in whatever size you requested.

As for Mitre saws, they are all over the place, between 10 and 12 ppi. Their catalogs state that they are regularly supplied in 11 ppi, but just about every one I've filed is 12. Futher, I have several near pristine long examples that are 10 ppi.

Hope this helps the discussion.

Pete

[Pete Taran]

Don't tell the Institute! I knew it was written somewhere. From the 1932 catalog.

4.jpg

[steven c newman]

Calling BS right here...as I have also COUNTED the points per inch on the saws I USE....Not sure HOW you learned to count....

[Pete Taran]

Steve,

Trying to suggest the 5 or 6 saws you might have to refer to is not nearly the same as the 10s of thousands I own, filed, sold or handled in the past 25 years. Plus, what more do you need as you can see the catalog excerpt I posted? You might want to lay off the salsa with your morning Cheerios.

[steven c newman]

Give the BS a rest, go back to the Disstonian and actually READ what Disston said about their Mitre Box No. 4 saws...you MIGHT just learn something? Doubt it...

OK, per the OP's question: I went to the shop, and set up a test piece of Hard Maple..
IMG_2291 (640x480).jpg
My Langdon mitre box, using a 5" x 28", 11 ppi No. 4 Disston saw...
IMG_2292 (640x480).jpg
Board is a 1 x 4 of Hard Maple. Line is to cut a 1/4" off of the end..
IMG_2293 (640x480).jpg
The white stuff on the teeth is candle wax, I find the saw works better with a couple swipes...
IMG_2294 (640x480).jpg
Does not take all that long to do. That is the cut-off laying there.
IMG_2295 (640x480).jpg
I haven't had this 5 x 30 made for Millers Falls Disston No. 4 mitre saw sent out for sharpening, yet. Feel free to count the POINTS (11)
I did suggest the OP get a Panel saw..
IMG_2296 (640x480).jpg
This is my 20", 10 ppi Disston D-8. It is even stamped as a "10" but, you can also count the points...
IMG_2299 (640x480).jpg
The saw is related to my full sized, 8ppi D-8 crosscut saw..
IMG_2300 (640x480).jpg
YMMV....

BTW..catalog is for a No. 8 saw...no relation to a No. 4 mitre box saw....

[Patrick Chase]

Calling BS right here...as I have also COUNTED the points per inch on the saws I USE....Not sure HOW you learned to count....

Wait, you just called BS on *Pete Taran* w.r.t. detail about Disston saws?

FYI the "Disstonian Institute" is just some random guy with a website. He and it has nothing to do with Disston the company. He's been wrong before, and he'll be wrong again.

[steven c newman]

I suppose YOU know how to READ an ad from Disston? Go back and read what it say about Disston Mitre box saws in Disston's own ads.....Bert...

[Jim Koepke]

May a bucket of ice water be offered to the path on which this thread has wondered?

jtk

[Pete Taran]

Stephen,

The #4 Backsaw is completely different from the #4 Mitre Saw which might be part of your confusion. Perhaps a dose of your own advice is required if actually cool off long enough to read what has been posted.

[Pat Barry]

I'm trying to figure out the whole salsa on Cheerio's thing ...