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Thread: Kerf marks?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    North -Eastern Ontario, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    I can't speak to the Kanefusa but I have a bunch of saws of different sizes and arbors, 7.25-18" in diameter. Many have been bought used as long as they are industrial with lots of carbide remaining. Royce Ayr, Nap Gladu, Leitz, FS Tool, Forrest, etc. I send them all to either Leitz or Gladu sharpening service and when they are done I can't tell which brand is better. That leads me to believe that if you start with a good blade with a flat plate, and heavy carbide, that the sharpener may be more important than the blade. Some day I'll have to try a Kanefusa and compare. Dave

    Dave, I have several blades from many of the same manufacturers as well. We’ve been dealing with FS since I was a young teenager (I’m 47 now) and Royce, Gladu etc.

    Its funny, I cant say why... and I have nothing to benefit from it - but I swear the Kanefusa just cuts better. I ordered 4 blades from ROyce last year - getting the exact diameter, plate, tooth geometry and count, as the Kanefusa’s I was using. I have used them daily for the past year and a bit side by side. I just had a talk with my Royce salesman.. telling him the blades just don’t cut quite as nice, or last quite as long between sharpening. I don’t think its in my head. I have a far easier time sourcing blades from FS, ROyce and Gladu, as they are all here in Ontario where I live and stock their own blades.

    Weird stuff. I’m not a tooling expert but for a small shop, we cut a lot of stock up in a year, and I know what works best for us. It was actually the guy who used to work for me, that bought my old shop that turned me onto the Kanefusa.
    Andrew J. Coholic

  2. #17
    I have a number of brands and years back when talking to BC i had to split a run of boxes they told me about the Kanafusa. When I finally go there for some knives I wanted ground it had been bought out and I wanted to talk to the grinder was told I cant and they send stuff to Montreal. I went from there to Taurus Craco. Owner held the door open for me he was just walking in, told him my storey took me out back to meet the grinder and he showed me the Weinig and talked to me for a bit and i left my stuff with him. Never went back to BC for the blades. Maybe I just got them at a bad time.

    I agree on the sharpening thing, then some are never as good as new, stuff sharpened by Royce the last times came back with different tip shapes which is fine, ones ive used so far work great. One place I went to years back ground really coarse and told me the finer grit sizes will never be as sharp. I went there that one time and that was it.

    Thanks Andrew for posting those. I have a gaggle of different blades here Royce and others that I got ahead of time and now have a saw they fit so ill be able to do some comparing as well.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
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    5,666
    Andrew, I know what you mean about some tooling just feeling right. Trying a Kanefusa might be an excuse for another old saw. Dave

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
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    I probably have 60-80 different blades in the shop, all different makers- most from auction lots. Anyway, the noise level, and the feed pressure are definitely lower with the Kanefusa. You don't need a lot of experience to experience this. The cut quality is directly reflected on the stock.
    Darcy, when I picked up that Greenlee, the previous owner had it rewound, but never run it. I never ran it. Surprised, mabe it was a "rustoleum rebuild"

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    I probably have 60-80 different blades in the shop, all different makers- most from auction lots. Anyway, the noise level, and the feed pressure are definitely lower with the Kanefusa. You don't need a lot of experience to experience this. The cut quality is directly reflected on the stock.
    Darcy, when I picked up that Greenlee, the previous owner had it rewound, but never run it. I never ran it. Surprised, mabe it was a "rustoleum rebuild"
    I don't know, it's always seemed under powered, never used it too much, but in the last year it has just sat because of this issue. I tried wiring it delta, Wye, no difference. I am hoping that the leads were numbered wrong or something. It looked like it had had motor work done to it, those weren't 1928 motor leads.

    I had my 12 year old take the motor out for me, she had fun figuring it out.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
    Posts
    996
    It sounds like mislabeled leads. Is this the " famous 12 lead motor" ?

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    It sounds like mislabeled leads. Is this the " famous 12 lead motor" ?
    I think was a different one. Lol.

    Let my motor shop guys sort it out.

    They just rewound a 6.6hp fimec motor out of a scmi.
    600 bucks. These metric frame motors suck. 3rd fimec motor that was junk in the last year.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    I think was a different one. Lol.

    Let my motor shop guys sort it out.

    They just rewound a 6.6hp fimec motor out of a scmi.
    600 bucks. These metric frame motors suck. 3rd fimec motor that was junk in the last year.
    That's what happens when you pack a whole bunch of sparks in a tiny tube.
    I don't understand their obsession with using the smallest case possible.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    That's what happens when you pack a whole bunch of sparks in a tiny tube.
    I don't understand their obsession with using the smallest case possible.
    It was almost 100 buck less than a new one, with no clue on shipping time or freight costs from the scm group. I would rather be forced into the same room with my ex vs. Having to call the SCM group.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Central WI
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    I factor in a rewind into any used Euro machine I buy. Small frame metric motors are crap. It allows the machines to use lighter internals which is another reason I don't like them. Dave

  11. #26
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    Mar 2006
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    SoCal
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    I usually skip this topic since it frequently boils down to machine setup, cutter quality and method. I just made a rip cut in pecan that had to be pretty close to the finished dimension. It came out pretty well so I thought I'd share.

    Rip Cut Pecan.jpg

    When doing this I use a feather board to handle the pressure against the fence and push blocks to control the smoothness of the feed. At any rate, this is with a 24 tooth, TCG, 10" blade from Carbide Processors.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 10-21-2017 at 10:18 PM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SF Baaaah Area
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    39
    Yep, Glenn you are on the money.

    It's probably a good idea to dial this all back to the fundamentals. If we're getting saw marks, that simply indicates there is movement somewhere between the workpiece and the cutter during the cutting operation. These are our problem keywords: A) movement, B) cutter, C) workpiece. SOLUTION: Eliminate movement between the cutter and the workpiece!

    I'm an old 'arn kinda guy, and more specifically, I chucked my table saw and now have 2 radial arm saws that handle all my tasks pretty much flawlessly: a Delta 30C and a 40C. Both of these machines required careful setup and tuning, but now churn out glue-line cuts on demand and without changing blades. What I've found is that my newer Delta RAS-12 (33-890)(now sold off) had too much runout on the shaft and general vibration in the whole assembly to give me cut quality anywhere near what the other 2 saws produce. Bottom line is TUNE YOUR TOOL to 50% (1/2) of the tolerance you want, otherwise it cannot possibly deliver on your expectations.

    Glue-line cuts? Yes, but only as Glenn offered, which is via the use of featherboards, which control the motion of the workpiece while it engages the cutters.

    Speaking of motion, blade stabilization is a big deal: Yes, blade stabilizers help, but matching machine power and blade size to the material hardness and thickness really matters. Thin sheet goods do not need and should not be cut with a gi-normous timber cutting blades, because the tip speed of the huge blades is just too high and the very large diameter ensures that much more of the blade plate is in contact with the wood than a smaller diameter plate will offer, so that the cutting friction will soften the glues and wood resins and cause stiction of the blade, which then works against the very heavy duty power that big industrial machines put out, and that means the exposed and unsupported blade plate can and will deform, which induces lateral blade motion and those nasty tooth marks. Less is more.

    To whit, I routinely get glueline cuts with my Makita track saw outfitted with a stock blade. This is a $500 setup, and clearly the $30K investment isn't helping the cut quality, so we need to see the obvious differences: A) The track saw has a tiny blade diameter and therefore the minimal surface area imparting motion into the workpiece (vibrations); B) Tip speed is about as low as we can get, and therefore will generate the lowest friction; C) The smaller diameter blade produces a shorter unsupported lever arm between the shaft and the cutters, so will thus remain flatter during cutting action, which means that the cutter edges will not only move far less out of plane, but also their out-of-plane excursions will be very constrained (attenuated) and that means they will be vibrating at a higher frequency with less amplitude -- the finer vibrations will be harder to see; D) the track saw naturally holds the workpiece down tight to the supporting surface, so there will be much less vibration induced by workpiece chatter (up and down vibrations); and E) the track saw's track has a splinter-free rubber strip that further prevents the surface fibers from getting hung up on the blade and becoming torn out. It's all about LOCKING DOWN the cutting operation in every way possible.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    9,467
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Instead of hijacking another thread...

    Can somebody show me a picture of a saw cut with no marks?

    I have four tablesaws, a $30k panel saw, and a $25k rip saw. All of them leave varying levels of marks behind. I see this topic come up once in a while, and either I have really low expectations, I'm pushing stuff too hard, or.... what.

    I've got chop boxes that will cut across the grain pretty flawlessly, but there's still saw marks. But with the grain, I don't have anything I'd prefer to go straight to an orbital with.
    In the process of making up the last of the frame-and-panels for a kitchen makeover. The following are Hard Maple frames ripped on a K3 with a 12" Leuco 24 tpi blade.

    The top is off the jointer (spiral A3-31), and the lower piece is off the saw ...



    There are a few teeth marks (see far left), but it is otherwise pretty clear.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 10-22-2017 at 8:39 AM.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    I probably have 60-80 different blades in the shop, all different makers- most from auction lots. Anyway, the noise level, and the feed pressure are definitely lower with the Kanefusa. You don't need a lot of experience to experience this. The cut quality is directly reflected on the stock.
    Darcy, when I picked up that Greenlee, the previous owner had it rewound, but never run it. I never ran it. Surprised, mabe it was a "rustoleum rebuild"
    Finally got the motor back from my motor shop.

    It was rewound, it is dual voltage, the leads were marked right. It's dual voltage 480 and 700v.

    I said I never heard of that, they said that they have seen a few others done like that.

    So I guess I better set everything up for 480v low voltage. Lol

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
    Posts
    996
    First I have heard of 700v myself. That explains the low power for sure.

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