Kerf marks?

[Martin Wasner]

Instead of hijacking another thread...

Can somebody show me a picture of a saw cut with no marks?

I have four tablesaws, a $30k panel saw, and a $25k rip saw. All of them leave varying levels of marks behind. I see this topic come up once in a while, and either I have really low expectations, I'm pushing stuff too hard, or.... what.

I've got chop boxes that will cut across the grain pretty flawlessly, but there's still saw marks. But with the grain, I don't have anything I'd prefer to go straight to an orbital with.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

No marks is not really going to happen, we both know that.

However, I would say the cut quality off of my 14” Kanefusa combination blades (what I use on my 10’ Griggio slider for panels, both veneer and solid woods) and off the 14” Kanefusa ripping blade are amazing.

I use the Kanefusa ripping blade as a glue line rip, for large things like table tops. Cuts 8/4 hardwood like the proverbial hot knife through butter. Easily just a quick sand to finish up if need be.

What are you cutting (material)?

There is also a huge difference between pushing the material through by hand VS clamped to the carriage and passed through like that. Much better cut quality clamped.

JFYI we start with the ROS at 120 grit.

[David Kumm]

Martin, do you stone or grind flanges down to eliminate runout? I do that with all my saws ( I rehab old stuff ). Nearly eliminates marks if I rip at a steady rate. DSCN3492.jpgDSCN3490.jpgDSCN3492.jpgDSCN3493.jpg Here a door I trimmed off ( 1/8" too much I might add ). I tried to get a picture of the few light marks that are there but not much. A little blurry but you can just make out some marks in the last picture. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

What are you cutting (material)?

Mostly plywood and pretty much any domestic hardwoods.

The cleanest cuts are definitely off the panel saw, but that's a hollow grind blade, (Lueco I think?). I've glued up some big tops using that to straightline two halves for a final glue up. I'd rather use a jointer if it were worth fighting a big piece. Also with big honking tops, I usually end up sanding a sawn edge, I'd much prefer removing machining marks from the jointer, or better yet, parts from opposite shear straight cutter I've got in a shaper. It may be a clean cut coming off of a saw blade, but it's not as clean as my go to methods are.

I see posts about sawmarks and others saying they have none. Seems impossible to me, which is why I posted. I don't think I'm getting anything less than expected in cut quality from anything I've got.

[Matt Day]

Martin,

I’m guessing you’re referencing my comment in the Pm66 thread, so i’ll reply. It’s not perfect, but here’s a picture of a rip cut in my Uni with Freud rip blade, and another with a non-rip blade (I think it was a Cross-Cut or wwii, don’t recall). Same saw setup, same cut setup, same material.

i know the rip blade cut isn’t perfect like it’s just been sanded to 220, but it’s an obvious difference. It could use a cleaning and sharpening would I’m sure improve it as well.

[Martin Wasner]

Martin, do you stone or grind flanges down to eliminate runout? I do that with all my saws ( I rehab old stuff ). Nearly eliminates marks if I rip at a steady rate.

I did on my 66 years ago which is kinda the general use saw in the shop. It cuts everything needed on the benches. Two of my saws are setup dedicated dado, the Northfield for box work, the Delta for grooving drawer bottoms. The Northfield is smooth as silk, the Unisaw I don't care. But, I think my Tannewitz would benefit from a little cleanup in this area. It's used for cutting sheet stock and it's pretty darn good, just not quite there. It's also 70 years old, but a very smooth running saw. No replacement for direct drive when it comes to smooth operation!

[Andrew J. Coholic]

Mostly plywood and pretty much any domestic hardwoods.

The cleanest cuts are definitely off the panel saw, but that's a hollow grind blade, (Lueco I think?). I've glued up some big tops using that to straightline two halves for a final glue up. I'd rather use a jointer if it were worth fighting a big piece. Also with big honking tops, I usually end up sanding a sawn edge, I'd much prefer removing machining marks from the jointer, or better yet, parts from opposite shear straight cutter I've got in a shaper. It may be a clean cut coming off of a saw blade, but it's not as clean as my go to methods are.

I see posts about sawmarks and others saying they have none. Seems impossible to me, which is why I posted. I don't think I'm getting anything less than expected in cut quality from anything I've got.

try a Kanefusa blade. It will be at least as good or better than anything else I’ll guarantee that. Or I’ll buy it from you, lol.

the big ripping blade is almost magical. I love using it, it is just not what you expect from a low tooth count aggressive blade.

We we have another large dining table to manufacture in a few weeks, 8/4 mahogany top close to 10’ long. I’ll take some pics then and post.

For 99% of what we cut that isn’t melamine, I use the combination blade, which is the exact same blade I use on my 14” Omga radial arm saw for cross cutting/length cutting.

i can hand sand the saw marks easily. We still edge sand most manageable pieces but if need beam ROS easily takes the saw marks out.

Having to joint, or effectively joint on the shaper seems like a waste of time to me. I wanted to try a few Leuco blades, but I have too many already and I don’t think anything will beat the Kanefusa.

[Martin Wasner]

I'm playing hooky from work tomorrow, (root canal on a cracked tooth at 7am, if I go to work that cranky everyone will be fired), but might go on Saturday to clean since the weather is going to be very nice. I'll try and take pictures of the cuts coming off of everything I can with some different blades. The only hardwood blade I've got for the Tanne is an 16" butcher blade, it's a chainsaw. I can't remember, but I think it's a 12 tooth. lol

[Martin Wasner]

I saw your post about those. I might try one in the jump saw. I got two blades with it, and I'm not impressed with either one.

[Warren Lake]

is there a specific thing like you are cutting your kitchen doors to size and dont want to see marks on the edges? or all stuff. Ive always cleaned my edges on the edge sander or final fit with it. Big stuff random then hand straight.

Andrew what are the models of those blades machinery show is in a few weeks have talked to Akhurst guy I spoke with didnt know other than they have them. Id like to go in with some model numbers thanks

[Andrew J. Coholic]

is there a specific thing like you are cutting your kitchen doors to size and dont want to see marks on the edges? or all stuff. Ive always cleaned my edges on the edge sander or final fit with it. Big stuff random then hand straight.

Andrew what are the models of those blades machinery show is in a few weeks have talked to Akhurst guy I spoke with didnt know other than they have them. Id like to go in with some model numbers thanks

Deal with Nap Gladu (the old BC Saw & Tool in Toronto). That’s where I got most of them. Headed shortly out of town to pick up a new shop delivery van. I should be back to work later this afternoon. I’ll take some model numbers down.

[Justin Ludwig]

I don't have near the experience with varying blades as most of you nor the high end equipment. All my blades are from Carbide Processors. My panel saw uses a 250mm 30mm bore, 60tooth TCG for solid surface or melamine and can be used on plywood with very little tearout - that's single pass and no scoring blade. For main use on ply with the VPS I use a 10" 30mm bore, 80tooth HiATB - with equal results.

PM2000 TS uses a 30tooth GLR for hardwood and 80tooth HiATB for plywood. I can take hardwood straight off the saw and glue up. Are there saw marks? Yes, in everything. But the saw marks are so minimal it would be asinine to complain or sand, unless that edge will be finished/exposed.

RAS and chop saw both use 12" 100tooth -6hook. Great cuts, minimal tearout.

All this to say: for hardwoods - material prep and saw set up determines whether or not I get the best cuts with less tool mark. Only problems I have with plywood is "springing" that will occasionally cause burning on the edge. Also keeping the pitch cleaned off of teeth makes a big difference. I have zero expectation of my blades to give me perfect, tool-mark-free cuts.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

These are the blades I use:

Kanefusa board pro 70 tooth combination: 14”x.157”x70(H14)xA-15
Kanefusa board pro 24 tooth rip: 14”x.170”x24xB
Kanefusa board pro 100 tooth ATB: 14”x.150”x100xC-BC
Kanefusa board pro 72 tooth TCG: 300mmODx3.2mm kerf x 2.2mm plate (12” blade)

Those are the blades I use on my Griggio panel saw.

On the 10” table saw (Sawstop 5hp ICS) I recently bought a 24 tooth ripping blade (been on the saw for the past two weeks, great blade) its a 255mmx3.00mmx5/8” blade. I also have a TCG 80 tooth blade I haven’t had a chance to try yet. But based on the rest of the Kanefusa blades I have been using for the past 6 1/2 years at work, I would say its going to be a good one. I think I have 11 of them Ive been using now.

[Darcy Warner]

I edge glue right off the 404 mattison.

I hardly use a table saw anymore.

My whitney left an almost flawless cut.

My greenlee is at the motor shop, it can't cut 1" poplar without stalling anymore.

[David Kumm]

I can't speak to the Kanefusa but I have a bunch of saws of different sizes and arbors, 7.25-18" in diameter. Many have been bought used as long as they are industrial with lots of carbide remaining. Royce Ayr, Nap Gladu, Leitz, FS Tool, Forrest, etc. I send them all to either Leitz or Gladu sharpening service and when they are done I can't tell which brand is better. That leads me to believe that if you start with a good blade with a flat plate, and heavy carbide, that the sharpener may be more important than the blade. Some day I'll have to try a Kanefusa and compare. Dave