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Thread: Which planes to get?

  1. #46
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    Hi Tim,

    You have some great advise above. The thing that strikes me, however, is you were asking for fairly basic information on block planes. However, some of the advise started in the middle, rather than at the beginning, so I was thinking that maybe it would be OK to give a basic beginning review of the different types of bench planes and a word or two on the block plane. This is not to contradict what is written above, just to give a little more basic information so as to make clearer what is written above.

    The first function, historically, of bench planes was starting with rough lumber and getting it to flat smooth lumber that is the right thickness and prepared so that it can be glued up, if need be.

    There are three basic functions of bench planes, which are smoothing, flattening, and stock removal. In this description, I will write about Stanley planes because they are so very common, and some of the other companies used similar number to describe the size of the plane, but not all did. For that reason I also list the length of the plane and the width of the iron.

    The first step is stock removal to get close to the right thickness, and to start to flatten the lumber. The stock removal plane is the "Fore" Plane, as it is used "fore" any other plane is used. It uses a fairly cambered iron, so as to take off stock fairly quickly and also do some rough flattening. The classic fore plane is the Stanley #6, which is about 18 inches long and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. A strongly cambered iron takes of stock pretty quickly. The Stanley #5, the "Jack" plane is also used for a "fore" plane by some folks, and works fine, again with a heavily cambered iron. The #5 is 14" long and take a 2" wide iron.

    The next step is flattening, and for this a jointer plane is used. It has a pretty long sole, and a mildly cambered iron. The classic jointer planes are the Stanley #7 and the Stanley #8. The #7 is about 22" long, and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. The #8 is about 24" long, and takes a 2&5/8" wide iron, and is one horse of a plane, it seems significantly heavier than the #7. There are a heck of a lot more #7s than #8s around, so this tells you which one folks generally preferred to use, and the #8s cost more too. These use a mildly cambered iron, and if used to flatten a surface like a bench top, or even something as big as a table top, a lot of folks first go across the width and about a 45 degree angle to the length of the surface. After going over the entire surface from one side, this is normally followed by the same procedure from the other side. The idea is to remove the needed amount of material, and at the same thing to level things out, checking the surface with winding sticks as you go. After it is pretty much the dead flat, the plane is used length wise down the length of the surface to get the surface dead flat. The long length of the sole helps tremendously. The jointer plane is also called a "try" plane, because it is used to "try" the surface and get it dead flat. Stanley also advertised the #6 as a small jointer plane. It could be carried by a carpenter in his tool box more easily than the larger two sizes, and quite a few may have been sold for just that purpose.

    The last plane used is the smoothing plane which uses a very slightly cambered iron and it is used to get the lumber smooth and ready to finish, normally you take a very thin shaving. The standard smoothing planes are the Stanley #4 and #3, the ones I have a both about 8&3/4" long. The #4 takes a 2" wide iron and the #3 takes a 1&3/4" wide iron. The other commonly used smoothing plane is the #4&1/2 which is a little longer, and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. It is typically used on larger surfaces because it takes a wider curling. Much less common and much less commonly used are the Stanley #1 and #2, which are also classed as smoothing planes, but they are pretty small, and the original Stanley planes in those sizes tend to be pricey, the #1, if you find one, will be extremely pricey if the seller knows what he has.

    Even in a very extensive Neander shop, however, you don't need all of the variations of sizes. You can get by quite well with one smoother, one jointer, and one fore plane. The best choice as to which one of each of the size options will depend on the size of your work. Some guys, like Steven and Jim, use multiple sizes, but most of us can get by, again, with only one of each.

    However, there is another option to having the three common sizes of planes.

    That brings us to the jack plane. That size is the one carpenters normally carried, and home handymen, home hobby woodworkers, and maintenance men who had to do carpentry or general woodworking repair work most often had. The #5 is 14" long and uses a 2" wide iron. The other size Jack planes are the #5&1/4 and the #5&1/2, the 5&1/4 being a bit smaller and the #5&1/2 being a bit larger. By far the most common, overwhelmingly, is the #5, which tells you which one was the most generally useful.

    If you have the three types of irons for it, heavily cambered, mildly cambered, and slightly cambered, it can be used as a fore plane, a jointer plane, and a smoothing plane. It will not do any one of the thee jobs as well as the dedicated plane, but in skilled hands it can do any of the three jobs to a reasonable extent. I had only a #5 and a block plane for a long time, and used it for everything. Lots of folks did just that because they may have only had the one plane.

    That brings us to the difference between bevel up (low angle) planes and bevel down (standard bench planes such as the Stanley Bailey planes) versions. The low angle planes are more of a specialist, doing wonderfully on end grain and for that type of application such as a shooting plane, but pretty prone to tear out if used lengthwise on a board. The standard planes on the other hand are better for planing lengthwise down a board or wooden surface, but not so good on end grain. Thus if your cutting boards are going to have end grain up, you want the low angle plane (I would use a #5) for a standard size cutting board. On the other hand, if your cutting boards are going to have the lumber run lengthwise down the cutting board, the standard bench plane is better. The standard #5 will also be much better for general woodworking.

    The above is a short survey of the historical uses of the planes. I use mine for many other tasks.

    Finally, "sharp" cover a multitude of sins. If your Stanley Bailey #5 is frighteningly sharp, it can be used for shooting and for end grain work. It won't do as well as a bevel up plane, but it can be used. Because of that critical factor "sharpness," you will need to know about sharpening, and have some sharpening stuff.

    For general woodworking, you can use a very sharp #5 for final smoothing up of an edge worked on by a power jointer to clean up chatter marks, just before glue up, etc. You can use it to fine tune doors, etc. to fit. You will use it for lots of things.

    Regards,

    Stew
    Last edited by Stew Denton; 11-08-2017 at 12:26 AM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim M Tuttle View Post
    ...I dont do a lot of hand tool work and my future projects wont call for it really...
    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Denton View Post
    ...The first function, historically, of bench planes was starting with rough lumber and getting it to flat smooth lumber that is the right thickness and prepared so that it can be glued up, if need be.

    There are three basic functions of bench planes, which are smoothing, flattening, and stock removal...The first step is stock removal to get close to the right thickness, and to start to flatten the lumber...

    The next step is flattening, and for this a jointer plane is used...

    The last plane used is the smoothing plane which uses a very slightly cambered iron and it is used to get the lumber smooth and ready to finish...
    I would bet that the OP will not be using a plane much for these functions. As a professional woodworker I rarely use a plane as you describe because machines can do it so much better/faster.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  3. #48
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    We'll find out soon enough....sending out a Millers Falls No. 56B Low angleblock plane ( same as a 60-1/2 stanley) the will also be a #4c and a #5 c from Stanley. All three were my users. They are set up, and sharpened. He should have them by next week, depending on the Pony Express...er..USPS....

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    That's certainly true and worth remembering.

    Personally, I find them to be an acceptable product. I have two. I wrote this review about four years back. I'm still very happy with that WR#3. In fact, they are on sale for 20% off right now.
    Yes, as I said in #28 I think the Wood Rivers are a reasonable tradeoff. I have a #3 and a #5. They're not quite as pleasant to use as my LV/LN planes, with somewhat rougher adjustments and overall build, as well as (IMO) excess weight. They also required more work to set up. Like anything made of water-hardened steel ("T10" steel is W1) the irons can require a fair amount of work in particular. With all of that said, they yield top-notch results with a moderate amount of tuneup, and that's what really matters.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    We'll find out soon enough....sending out a Millers Falls No. 56B Low angleblock plane ( same as a 60-1/2 stanley) the will also be a #4c and a #5 c from Stanley. All three were my users. They are set up, and sharpened. He should have them by next week, depending on the Pony Express...er..USPS....
    Wow, the OP just lucked out big time. He probably won't realize just how lucky until he tries to procure a used plane through more "normal" channels.

  6. #51
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    Called "Paying it forward" something more of us should try to do......

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Called "Paying it forward" something more of us should try to do......
    +1. Good show Steven!

  8. A lot of great, informative and well intended comments. However, I think we are being a little naive here, so I'm going to lay down the simple facts. It doesn't really matter which planes the OP starts with, nor his intent to only buy two planes to take care of the odd task that is ill-suited to power tools. Once he uses one well set up hand plane he will NEED TO BUY THEM ALL . It's an infections disease and self-administering a small dose can only lead to a full-blow outbreak that may even spread to woodworking friends. Sad, but ultimately true. So go through the motions, back-and-forth's and indecision associated with narrowing your choice to just two planes, but don't stress too much; because you'll be getting the rest at some stage anyway! . Just like a zombie apocalypse - it only takes a bite.

    Also, wow, just read the last few posts! Nice one Steven, really great of you! Guess the zombie came to you Tim.

    Cheers,

    Dom
    Last edited by Dominik Dudkiewicz; 11-08-2017 at 6:46 AM.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Yes, as I said in #28 I think the Wood Rivers are a reasonable tradeoff. I have a #3 and a #5. They're not quite as pleasant to use as my LV/LN planes, with somewhat rougher adjustments and overall build, as well as (IMO) excess weight. They also required more work to set up. Like anything made of water-hardened steel ("T10" steel is W1) the irons can require a fair amount of work in particular. With all of that said, they yield top-notch results with a moderate amount of tuneup, and that's what really matters.
    Sounds like we agree then! Just wanted the OP to know that there are more than one satisfied user here.

    I definitely agree about the weight.

    Have a good one Pat.
    Fred

  10. #55
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    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim M Tuttle View Post
    Morning all,

    I am wanting to get a couple of planes. I dont do a lot of hand tool work and my future projects wont call for it really, but there have been and will be times that I'll need a plane. I'd like to start out with a block plane and a bench plane. My knowledge of planes is very limited so I am looking for advice on the bench plane. From some research I've done it sounds like a block plane and a low angle jack plane will cover the vast majority of needs.

    Is that a good place to start? What should be considered when purchasing planes?

    Thanks
    Hi Tim

    When your focus is almost entirely on power tools, then the hand planes you will find useful are those that enable you to tweak joints.

    A standard angle block plane is helpful for breaking edges, chamfering, or removing plane marks. Set it with a 30 degree bevel for a 50 degree cutting angle. You then do not need a smoother (out goes the #3 or #4).

    I might have recommended a router plane for hinge mortices, however I suspect that you will prefer to use a power router and finish with a chisel. Similarly, tweaking mortice and tenon joints would generally call for a shoulder plane, but you will does these with power. Still, a shoulder plane is really useful for fine tuning rebates. A possibility?

    The third option may sound unnecessary at first, but a common #5 jack would be used to take down high spots on a board you are ready to flatten on a jointer. Plus, with a second blade (one with a larger radius for fast removal and another with a fine camber for smoothing), it could be a smoother or even short jointer plane for edges. Working with this plane will give you the taste of hand planing, and then you may decide to go further.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 11-08-2017 at 8:05 AM.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    I've already run into a couple of instances where a shoulder plane would have been handy. While, at this moment, I am saying I wont do a lot with hand tools, things change and the more I am exposed to woodworking the more I tend to dive in. This whole adventure of mine started about a year ago when I wanted a simple workbench in the garage for doing household stuff. 10 months later and I have a garage full of tools, my car is permanently banished to the driveway, and just last night I put the finishing touches on subpanel installation and complete shop rewire and lighting!


  12. #57
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    Many thanks to everyone who has contributed in this thread. I've learned a great deal. And a special thanks to Steven for his incredible generosity!

  13. #58
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    Feb 2017
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    Ramona, CA by way of Phliadelphia
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    Hi Tim, I noticed that you have a Wen Air Cleaner, was thinking about one and was wondering if your happy with it's performance.
    Rick

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Malakoff View Post
    Hi Tim, I noticed that you have a Wen Air Cleaner, was thinking about one and was wondering if your happy with it's performance.
    Rick
    I am not unhappy nor happy. It's the only air cleaner I've ever had so I am not able to compare it to anything else. Honestly, the dust doesnt bother me (acutely, no idea in regards to chronic). I will say that the filters turn brown pretty quickly! Especially when I was flushing trimming some MDF to make my outfeed table.

    Judging by appearance and specs it's the same thing as the Jet and Grizzly and a few others but the least expensive. I've also noticed various other Wen products that are strikingly similar to Jet and Grizzly.

    An air quality monitor is on my wish list of purchases but I havent pulled the trigger yet.

  15. #60
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    Feb 2017
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    Thanks for your input, my guess id that if the filters get dirty, it's probably working. As to other products appearing the same especially from China I have to agree, same pig different lipstick.
    Rick

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