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Thread: It's all going to rust, isn't it?

  1. #1
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    It's all going to rust, isn't it?

    We are moving early next spring to southwest Florida not far from Marco Island, and I am afraid I will have to give up woodworking. There is no space for my hobby inside the air-conditioned space of the house and thus I'll have to work in the garage, if at all.

    I have heard tales about rust in this climate and fear it's a lost cause. We will be there winters only, and while temperatures are not too bad during those six months, the humidity is always way up there. And the tools will sit there year round.

    Is there a way the tools of this pastime might be saved? I am getting rid of all my stationary power tools, the tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, miter saws, planer, and am trying to get down to the basic neanderthal kit I have of hand planes, chisels, and saws.

    I'm losing sleep over this pending life transition.

    Will plane socks help? Chisel rolls? One thought I have is to simply move the whole kit inside to the laundry room for the six months we will be traveling up north each summer and fall. They would be in air-conditioned space then.

  2. #2
    No need to give up the hobby Gene. There are many ways to protect your stuff, including Boeshield, paste wax, a coat of shellac, a dehumidifier, a tool chest with drying agent in a porous bag, etc. Or move the tools into the laundry in a rolling tool chest. Search the archives here and you'll find a lot of discussion to help you.

    You can manage this, even living there half a year.

    Fred

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Davis View Post
    We are moving early next spring to southwest Florida not far from Marco Island, and I am afraid I will have to give up woodworking. There is no space for my hobby inside the air-conditioned space of the house and thus I'll have to work in the garage, if at all.

    I have heard tales about rust in this climate and fear it's a lost cause. We will be there winters only, and while temperatures are not too bad during those six months, the humidity is always way up there. And the tools will sit there year round.

    Is there a way the tools of this pastime might be saved? I am getting rid of all my stationary power tools, the tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, miter saws, planer, and am trying to get down to the basic neanderthal kit I have of hand planes, chisels, and saws.

    I'm losing sleep over this pending life transition.

    Will plane socks help? Chisel rolls? One thought I have is to simply move the whole kit inside to the laundry room for the six months we will be traveling up north each summer and fall. They would be in air-conditioned space then.
    I have a lot of experience doing woodworking in hot, humid, sea-salt-ridden environs where it rains at least once a day, and a squall comes to call three times a week..

    Keep your steel tools dry. Don't let the wind bring water mist during rain and storms into the garage.

    Keep your steel away from cardboard and cloth in the humid garage unless you have a layer of plastic or aluminum foil between the steel and box. Chisel rolls, especially leather ones, are NG. Plane socks are good for a while, but are not good long-term. Open chrome-plated steel wire shelving, or plastic boxes are best for storage.

    Keep dust from collecting on steel, since dust close to the ocean always contains salt.

    Forget all that nonsense about WD-40, paste wax, and camellia oil. They won't work where you are going.

    Make an oilpot, fill it with a good lightweight synthetic motor oil like Mobile One, Royal Purple, or Amsoil, and keep your steel oiled in-use.

    At the end of the day, wipe them with a clean rag or paper towel, and spray them with CRC Industries 3-36. This is light enough it will coat sawteeth thoroughly. It doesn't take much.

    For steel tools you will store in the garage for more than a few days, use CRC's Heavy Duty Corrosion Inhibitor.

    If you need to store steel tools in your garage for more than a couple of weeks, use CRC SP-400. You don't want to use this frequently since it requires solvent to remove.

    I am not a CRC sales rep. I was introduced to them by boat mechanics on the island, and found that they work and are easy to use.

    Boeshield is OK, but it doesn't deal well with salt, and won't displace moisture well but floats on top and traps it.

    If you do these things, rust will not be a problem.

    2 cents.

  4. #4
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    There are a number of FLA woodworkers here and on other forums. I would make your post title more informative. "Looking for Experiences Woodworking in Florida" or "Machine Maintenance for Florida Woodworkers" or "Moving to Florida, Help me save my Machines" would all garner more targeted responses to your plight.

    Also, running this search with Google got me good results: "Rust prevention" site:www.sawmillcreek.org

    Good luck.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 11-11-2017 at 10:40 AM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  5. #5
    As a fellow Floridian, I'll give you my take.

    Tools: Hand tools WILL rust if you leave them in a garage. If you store them in a sealed cabinet with DampRid it will just about totally prevent rusting. Wiping down with Camella or Jatoba oil after every use. You must be vigilant and stop any rust when it starts. Closely observe your plane blades when sharpening. I use the rubber sand erasers.

    Machines: Personally I'm not a big fan of wax. I prefer to use something that will soak into the metal like Boeshield. Once again, be vigilant and sand off any rust as it occurs.

    If you keep a fan running in the shop that helps. I think dehumidifiers will not work very well if the garage door is open while you're working.

    Wood: Here is where your biggest issues will be. At night the humidity goes up in the mornings during the summer it will be in the 80-90% range. You have to acclimate your project lumber a month or two or be prepared to deal with cupped panels, etc.

    I think the best solution is to make a controlled environment. For a typical 2 car garage that means insulation and a mini split AC unit. Typically walls are not insulated this may entail more work. I strongly recommend hiring out any insulation work rather than DIY.and install a mini split AC unit.

    Its a big expense, but in the long it will be worth it and add value to your home.
    Last edited by Robert Engel; 11-11-2017 at 11:53 AM.

  6. #6
    Stan is the most knowledgeable guy on this one, but I'd like to add this:

    1. For the longest time, I couldn't figure out how to stop things from rusting. For my tools, I kept them in my bedroom.
    2. Then, I tried sticking it in a wooden chest with a rust inhibitor puck. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...67&cat=1,43456
    3. My planes are in a systainer with a rust inhibitor puck and plane socks too...they work just fine.

    What type of woodworking? What type of tools?
    You may just want to stick it in a rubbermade plastic box with a rust inhibitor puck.

    ps. I'll be trying out Stan's idea with the motor oil.

  7. #7
    I like the things Matt mentioned. They have not caught on as fast as I thought they would. They really are different,it's worth reading how they work .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Lau View Post
    Stan is the most knowledgeable guy on this one, but I'd like to add this:

    1. For the longest time, I couldn't figure out how to stop things from rusting. For my tools, I kept them in my bedroom.
    2. Then, I tried sticking it in a wooden chest with a rust inhibitor puck. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...67&cat=1,43456
    3. My planes are in a systainer with a rust inhibitor puck and plane socks too...they work just fine.

    What type of woodworking? What type of tools?
    You may just want to stick it in a rubbermade plastic box with a rust inhibitor puck.

    ps. I'll be trying out Stan's idea with the motor oil.
    You can also get paper, bags, mats, cardboard squares, etc that release the same volatile corrosion inhibitor (VCI) as the pucks. They all work very well in my experience. LV and LN both wrap their planes in VCI paper for shipment, and use the bags and chips for various other tools. The nice thing about VCI is that it rapidly dissipates when the tool is taken out of the container rather than leaving a waxy or oily film like a barrier solution. The corresponding downside is that VCI only works well relatively enclosed spaces.

    For stuff that can't be stored in a container you'll want to use a barrier of some sort. Those can be roughly divided into 2 rough categories: Ones that stay liquid (motor oil, CRC 3-36, WD40 etc) and ones that "dry" and leave a wax film behind (Boeshield, CRC SP400, paste waxes). Within those categories there are also different characteristics in terms of initial penetrarion etc. I mostly use CRC 3-36, which initially penetrates but then "settles down" into a stable liquid film after the volatiles flash off.

    Note also that steels have varying tendencies to rust. One noteworth example is LV's PM-V11, which is a true stainless (>10% free Chromium) and is very corrosion-resistant. HCS and iron plane bodies are unfortunately on the other extreme.

    Maybe this could be your excuse to "invest" in some nice bronze-bodied LN planes? :-)

  9. #9
    Gene,

    Don't despair. There are lots of WW in very humid climates who have solved this problem. I'm one of them. Did you forget that you posted in General Woodworking? You got a lot of replies over there as well as here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...age-in-Florida.

    Doug

  10. #10
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    What is an oilpot and how is it used?

  11. #11
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    Thomas,
    See here The Essential Oilpot
    Chet

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    You can also get paper, bags, mats, cardboard squares, etc that release the same volatile corrosion inhibitor (VCI) as the pucks. They all work very well in my experience. LV and LN both wrap their planes in VCI paper for shipment, and use the bags and chips for various other tools. The nice thing about VCI is that it rapidly dissipates when the tool is taken out of the container rather than leaving a waxy or oily film like a barrier solution. The corresponding downside is that VCI only works well relatively enclosed spaces.

    For stuff that can't be stored in a container you'll want to use a barrier of some sort. Those can be roughly divided into 2 rough categories: Ones that stay liquid (motor oil, CRC 3-36, WD40 etc) and ones that "dry" and leave a wax film behind (Boeshield, CRC SP400, paste waxes). Within those categories there are also different characteristics in terms of initial penetrarion etc. I mostly use CRC 3-36, which initially penetrates but then "settles down" into a stable liquid film after the volatiles flash off.

    Note also that steels have varying tendencies to rust. One noteworth example is LV's PM-V11, which is a true stainless (>10% free Chromium) and is very corrosion-resistant. HCS and iron plane bodies are unfortunately on the other extreme.

    Maybe this could be your excuse to "invest" in some nice bronze-bodied LN planes? :-)
    Patrick:

    Have you read test results, or made your own investigation of the corrosion resistance of PM-V11? I have not used it, and so cannot comment, but I know from experience that Hitachi's ZDP-189, which contains around 20% chrome, is not as rust resistant as many tool steels with less chrome. My point is that high Chrome content is not a guarantee of corrosion resistance.

    Interested in hearing your thoughts.

    Gene:

    VCI chemicals are very useful, but they are less than effective if salt (e.g. wind-borne, dust-borne, or hand sweat) is already on the steel before it is exposed to the vapors.

    New tools are clean and without salt on the surface, so VCI chemicals are very effective for NIB tools, and manufacturers have found them to be great packaging material. But after using the tool, how clean is it? Do you wipe off every trace of skin contact?

    It is absolutely true that VCI's only work in enclosed containers. Is that a viable storage condition for you?

    Patrick has it right. All oils are liquid (until they aren't) and evaporate over time leaving steel unprotected. Some last longer than others, and are more resistant to oxidation. Vegetable oils oxidize relatively rapidly, and can even turn acidic as they become rancid. So you need a liquid oil, something easily and quickly applied, very stable, and petroleum based (ergo synthetic motor oil), for daily constant use as both lubricant and surface protectant.

    And you need something that is easily applied but that displaces moisture and then seals the steel from surface moisture when you are not using the tools. Paraffin wax is a proven sealant that does not readily oxidize or evaporate, and is pretty neutral. But by itself, it will not displace water. SG. Boeshield is paraffin wax with a solvent carrier of some sort. In my experience, it is not good for displacing moisture. CRC 3-36 is also paraffin based, but the solvents it contains do make the spray displace moisture, so I recommend it.

    CRC SP-400 is some sort of wax too, but it dries into a solid skin that is very effective, but more difficult to remove.

    I grew up in the desert where nothing rusts. I learned about serious corrosion in Thailand and Japan, both hot and humid. But my real education kicked in on the hot, humid, stormy, salty little island of Guam, aka "Armpit of the Pacific." Steel turns red and goes away quicker there than anyplace I have ever seen. Scary. So I asked the boat mechanics who have to deal with steel exposed to hot, wet, salty conditions all day every day, and they suggested the CRC products. I stored all my steel tools in my non-AC garage for 18 months. i did not store them all away in containers after each use, but kept many on and under the bench and on wire shelving the entire time. I was already using an oilpot and synthetic oil before Guam, but it was not enough. The boat mechanic's advice was invaluable.

    Stan

  13. #13
    Be careful if you are using synthetic motor oils as part of your rust defense system. Some of them are hygroscopic. You don't want the oil in your oil pot to be attracting moisture.

  14. #14
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    Barne, Is there a way one can tell which are hygroscopic??
    Chet

  15. #15
    I believe it is the ester based oils that are the ones that are hygroscopic. My organic chemistry classes were a very long time ago. A Google search should turn up something more current and more specific.

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