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Thread: Lie-Nielsen Issues

  1. #1

    Lie-Nielsen Issues

    I need some opinions of woodworkers with more experience. I'm on my 3rd lever cap for a Lie-Nielsen #8. It's a brand new plane that I received on the 20th of October. The first cap had the lever bent so it was extremely difficult to operate. The second and third it doesn't appear that the lever was machined correctly so the cam action doesn't operate. I hope this makes sense. If I tighten the screw any more I can't get the cap on. When I do get the cap on, once the lever is down it's not tight enough and can wiggle around. Any help is appreciated. Good 4-1/2 lever cap on the right for reference IMG_20171115_183401.jpgIMG_20171115_183345.jpg
    Last edited by Steven Harrison; 11-15-2017 at 9:22 PM. Reason: Added pictures

  2. #2
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    What are the two cap irons in the pic? Are those the second and third for the 8, or a "good" one and one of the ones for the 8?

    The one on the right looks like it should work OK as it has ample range (difference in cam surface height with lever up vs down).

    The one on the left looks like the hole in the lever was drilled a bit too far from the end. I can see how to fix it easily enough by filing, but you shouldn't have to do that on an L-N.

    Looks like maybe they're using the wrong jig in production to drill this specific lever cap. That would explain why 2 in a row have the same issue.

    P.S. - This is why I prefer screw tensioners a la LV :-)
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-15-2017 at 9:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    What are the two cap irons in the pic? Are those the second and third for the 8, or a "good" one and one of the ones for the 8?

    The one on the right looks like it should work OK as it has ample range (difference in cam surface height with lever up vs down).

    The one on the left looks like the hole in the lever was drilled a bit too far from the end. I can see how to fix it easily enough by filing, but you shouldn't have to do that on an L-N.

    Looks like maybe they're using the wrong jig in production to drill this specific lever cap. That would explain why 2 in a row have the same issue.
    Shoot I forgot to specify, I'll have to edit. Yes the one on the right is the good one from my 4-1/2 and the left is the 8. I don't want to modify anything at this point but I'm starting to second guess myself. I'm incredibly frustrated. They told me they'd ship the lever cap last week on Wednesday. I hadn't heard anything so I emailed them Friday but never got a response. Monday I had to call them to get them to actually ship it. I've had the plane for almost four weeks and haven't been able to use it. An expensive 24 inch paperweight

  4. #4
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    Steven,

    It may be time for you to find someone in your area who can drop by and lend a hand on this. That is difficult for folks like me to volunteer our help without knowing where you are located.

    If you are in the Portland, Oregon area I will be happy to help.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Steven,

    It may be time for you to find someone in your area who can drop by and lend a hand on this. That is difficult for folks like me to volunteer our help without knowing where you are located.

    If you are in the Portland, Oregon area I will be happy to help.

    jtk
    Completely understand. It it tough. I'm in the St. Louis area, but thank you for the offer.

  6. #6
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    I ordered a 4 1/2 a couple years ago and it showed up with a flaw in the tote. It was replaced immediately with an abundance of professionalism and customer service. The lever on my cap iron was a bit tight initially too. A drop of oil made all the difference. Have faith. They will make it right.
    It's wood dust. Saw dust would suggest a problem.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Harrison View Post
    Shoot I forgot to specify, I'll have to edit. Yes the one on the right is the good one from my 4-1/2 and the left is the 8. I don't want to modify anything at this point but I'm starting to second guess myself. I'm incredibly frustrated. They told me they'd ship the lever cap last week on Wednesday. I hadn't heard anything so I emailed them Friday but never got a response. Monday I had to call them to get them to actually ship it. I've had the plane for almost four weeks and haven't been able to use it. An expensive 24 inch paperweight
    I'm going to address the technical aspects here and leave the business concerns alone, save to say that this is out of character for L-N in my experience. You have every right to expect them to make it right.

    The problem with the cap iron in the picture is that the cam surface on the lever extends from the cap by about the same amount regardless of lever position. This is obvious in the second picture, where the left lever cap's cam extends all the way to the sheet metal spring/guard with the lever up, while the right example's cam surface is basically flush with the cap body in the same position.

    The reason this is so is probably because the lever's hole is in the wrong place. The giveaway is the amount by which the levers extend "above" the cap (to the left in the picture), again in the second picture. You can see that in the left cap iron, the entire lever is shifted "down" (to the right in the picture) towards the spring as compared to the right cap iron. A misdrilled hole in the lever is the most likely cause IMO. The other possibility is that the corresponding feature in the cap is similarly mis-positioned, but I think that's less likely based on my experience with similar manufacturing processes.

    The tightness of your first lever cap might also reflect a drilling issue BTW. Are you sure the lever was actually bent as opposed to just being installed crooked?
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-15-2017 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Steven,

    It may be time for you to find someone in your area who can drop by and lend a hand on this. That is difficult for folks like me to volunteer our help without knowing where you are located.

    If you are in the Portland, Oregon area I will be happy to help.

    jtk
    If this were an Ebay special I think that would be the way to go. Given that this is a new, premium plane with an obvious machining issue I think that the vendor needs to straighten it out. It's blindingly obvious that the lever was drilled in the wrong place (i.e. it's pivoting about the wrong center).

  9. #9
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    Steve, email the pictures to LN. They will know immediately and they can and will help you.

    As to timing, Friday was Veteran's Day . . so mail will have been delayed.

    LN has a very well deserved reputation for customer service.

  10. #10
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    IIRC...OP did in fact call them....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    IIRC...OP did in fact call them....
    He called them multiple times. He's already gone through 2 bad lever caps and is awaiting a third (and unlike some other threads there is no question that the one in the picture is flawed. Anybody with any mechanical sense will immediately recognize that that lever cap can't possibly work as intended).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    He called them multiple times. He's already gone through 2 bad lever caps and is awaiting a third (and unlike some other threads there is no question that the one in the picture is flawed. Anybody with any mechanical sense will immediately recognize that that lever cap can't possibly work as intended).
    Yes I did call them. And send them pictures and a video. This is actually the 3rd cap. The lever on the first was definitely bent to the side, you could see it by eye. The second was the same as the one pictured. It was supposed to be inspected by the shop manager. Here's a picture of the first. IMG_20171020_212952.jpgIMG_20171020_212917.jpg

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick McCarthy View Post
    Steve, email the pictures to LN. They will know immediately and they can and will help you.

    As to timing, Friday was Veteran's Day . . so mail will have been delayed.

    LN has a very well deserved reputation for customer service.
    Yeah they told me they would ship the part last Wednesday. Maybe that explains why they didn't respond to me email Friday, but I had to reach out to them Monday late morning to get any info about it. They were supposed to ship the new one before receiving the old one. Well that didn't happen, I had the old one back before I called.

  14. #14
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    I agree with Patrick that itís obvious that the lever cap can never tighten and loosen the way it is. Iím less sure that it is due to a miss drilled hole. It looks like to me that the hole is in the right place or the cap would not be flush on the finished side. What I think the problem is that they missed a step in finishing the lever part of the cap. When the lever is at a right angle to the cap, there is too much material protruding. If you wanted to, 5 minutes with a file on the protruding piece would tune it right up. Clearly you shouldnít have to do that on a new plane, but if you are tired of waiting, just take a mill file and remove the thickness between the spring and the lever when it is sprung so it looks like the one that works.

    Very sad that LN has taken 3 tries to get this right.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    I agree with Patrick that it’s obvious that the lever cap can never tighten and loosen the way it is. I’m less sure that it is due to a miss drilled hole. It looks like to me that the hole is in the right place or the cap would not be flush on the finished side. What I think the problem is that they missed a step in finishing the lever part of the cap. When the lever is at a right angle to the cap, there is too much material protruding. If you wanted to, 5 minutes with a file on the protruding piece would tune it right up. Clearly you shouldn’t have to do that on a new plane, but if you are tired of waiting, just take a mill file and remove the thickness between the spring and the lever when it is sprung so it looks like the one that works.

    Very sad that LN has taken 3 tries to get this right.
    This makes me feel better that others can see the issue too. I thought about filing it, but at this point I want them to understand what's going on and hopefully fix it.

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