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Thread: Paul Sellers screwed up...a big PR blunder damaging his hardearned reputation

  1. #1

    Paul Sellers screwed up...a big PR blunder damaging his hardearned reputation

    No one educates hand tool woodworkers like him as his teaching skills are second to none. But his recent giveaway campaign that requires people to give up their rights to make comments on the youtube channel to a third-party company(?) is a disaster in the making.

    The steps to enter into his draw are unnecessarily complicated (you have to have a youtube account; open one if you dont; subscribe; answer a question; watch his video if you dont know the answer (ha! more views for him!); allow someone to comment on your behalf...). I dont know what else you need to do to enter because I never completed the steps.

    All these for a Paul Sellers's signed #4?! Thank you very much; I won't fall for it.

    The draw requires you to subscribe to his channel, meaning the exercise is another attempt to boast his subscriptions. What an irony that he is celebrating his 250,000 subscriptions with this giveaway!

    Paul, if you are reading this, please scrap your draw and start it over. Just a simple draw: an email address and a simple math question, and NO youtube subscriptions or giving up any rights. You are risking your reputation as a woodworker, teacher and decent person. Why risk it all on just adding a few thousands of new subscribers to your account? There are many better and legitimate ways to make money for you!

    Whoever in his crew organized and set up this entry system has done Paul a big disservice (Paul is not a technologically-trained person). Still the buck stops at Paul's desk.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 11-23-2017 at 10:19 AM.

  2. #2
    It would seem logical to me that a giveaway item celebrating the subscriptions actually go to a subscriber. I mean, that's the whole point, right?
    I don't know about the third party comment thing you're referring to...and won't as I don't need the plane and won't enter the contest...but perhaps it is a molehill that appears as a mountain to you.

    If I'm missing some piece of this I'll gladly adjust my thoughts and feelings on it.

  3. #3
    Someone elsewhere said better than I about what a person entering the draw is giving up: "More importantly, you are essentially giving Gleam, a marketing company, a full access to your [youtube] data, even the right to post comments in your name."

    In other words, you are not just subscribing his channel when you subscribe, as part of the process to complete the entry, you have to agree to assign such right to Gleam. You can't control how Gleam will use your data or the right to comment given to it.

    Simon

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Been subscribed to his Blog for quite a while....and have posted a few comments on it.

    Have enough Stanley No. 4s in the till......

  5. #5
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    The generations that have never known life without the internet assume it is a beneficial utility. We lost the bulk of that in the early 2000's when dot-coms discovered it as a financial engine. Presenting this stuff is not free. However, folks are (for better or worse) allowed to freely present just about whatever they want and however they want to.

    One's choice to participate or not, is their own. Take my words with a grain of salt. "Free" offers that cost me information or demographics are items I pass on; I have never had a My Space, Facebook, twitter, etc. account as the benefit is not worth the cost to me. For quality woodworking forums and resources, the cost is justified for me. Others love all the social networking venues and the cost is reasonable to them. Rock on.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  6. #6
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    Hi Simon,

    I don't think it's as big of a deal as you make it out to be. I entered for the competition, as Paul Sellers is a woodworker I greatly respect and would love to own his plane. For the youtube bit, it makes sense that his subscribers would be the only ones eligible for the prize, as it's a giveaway celebrating 250K YouTube subscribers. So it makes sense that you would have to subscribe first. As for the third party Gleam aspect, the permissions are similar to those asked for by Android and Iphone apps. I wasn't comfortable with some of the permissions required, so I didn't enter for the two extra entries. I don't find it outrageous though - if the 2 extra entries are worth the risk to you, go for it, if not, just stick to the one. If you can't be bothered to make a YouTube account, or subscribe to his account, don't enter. But I respect him for everything he does for hand-tool woodworking, and hardly think this is a huge PR blunder.

  7. #7
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    Assign the right to use my name to comment any way they might choose?

    I was born in the morning, but it wasn't this morning.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
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    Every time I see thoughts, a thread, or comments on this issue, the idea of privacy and giving it up, I am reminded of this quote by Sam Seaborn.

    Sam Seaborn: 'It's not just about abortion, it's about the next 20 years. In the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be free, what could be more fundamental than this?'

    In today's world, people willingly give up their privacy in a search for 'free' stuff, for fame or something close to it. I do my best not to, though at times have been sucked in. I see the world today moving closer to many aspects of the Truman Show, but were we are all Truman. Some, many in fact, are comfortable with friends, neighbors, the guy down the street, and every company or government agency knowing all about them. I am not and yes, it is a personal choice.
    I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love.... It seems to me that Montana is a great splash of grandeur....the mountains are the kind I would create if mountains were ever put on my agenda. Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans. Montana has a spell on me. It is grandeur and warmth. Of all the states it is my favorite and my love.

    John Steinbeck


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasin Haroon View Post
    Hi Simon,

    I don't think it's as big of a deal as you make it out to be. I entered for the competition, as Paul Sellers is a woodworker I greatly respect and would love to own his plane. For the youtube bit, it makes sense that his subscribers would be the only ones eligible for the prize, as it's a giveaway celebrating 250K YouTube subscribers. So it makes sense that you would have to subscribe first. As for the third party Gleam aspect, the permissions are similar to those asked for by Android and Iphone apps. I wasn't comfortable with some of the permissions required, so I didn't enter for the two extra entries. I don't find it outrageous though - if the 2 extra entries are worth the risk to you, go for it, if not, just stick to the one. If you can't be bothered to make a YouTube account, or subscribe to his account, don't enter. But I respect him for everything he does for hand-tool woodworking, and hardly think this is a huge PR blunder.
    The subscription part isn't what my beef is about which can be unsubscribed easily if one wishes to after entering the draw. It is the complexity to complete the draw. It was not clear anywhere in the process that one did not have to complete all the steps as you point out here. There was no explanation about Gleam in the process. You may know about what you are giving up as you explain here, but most don't.

    In fact, I received an email from his company telling me I still had two outstanding steps to complete after I aborted answering the skill question (drill bit).

    Check out his blog about what other people -- supposedly his fan base -- are saying about this. Unlike his usual style, he is not responding to those frank comments. He is a woodworker and not a marketing prof; i can understand why he did not foresee how it could go wrong.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 11-23-2017 at 11:58 AM.

  10. #10
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    Agree they messed up on the design of this giveaway. Seems like good intentions, but not thought through. Here is the "Team Paul" reply to the criticisms from a few hours ago. Still not fully thinking through the issue they've stirred up:

    Paul Sellers4 hours ago

    We would like to thank everyone for support and positive feedback with regard to our first giveaway. We understand the feedback some of you have given about not wanting to give permissions on your account to the third party selector, Gleam. We don’t feel is fair at this point in time to make any considerable changes with regards to the competition steps as we would like to keep it fair for all future entries in this prize draw. However, in any future giveaways, we will avoid using the aspects of the selector that require giving extra permissions. - Team Paul -

  11. #11
    Must be my day to be Debbie Downer. But it seems pretty straight forward to me: If you don't like the terms, don't play. (I won't.) And I honestly don't care if it tarnishes his reputation. That's his problem to deal with. Don't get me wrong, I like Mr. Sellers a lot and I'm awed by his skills. But ....

    YMMV, of course.
    Fred
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 11-23-2017 at 1:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Paul View Post
    Agree they messed up on the design of this giveaway. Seems like good intentions, but not thought through. Here is the "Team Paul" reply to the criticisms from a few hours ago. Still not fully thinking through the issue they've stirred up:
    Good to know. It shows Paul and his team do listen to their audiences and don't stop learning.

    Simon

  13. #13
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    His playpen, his rules I guess.
    Last edited by Dave Lehnert; 11-23-2017 at 2:26 PM.
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lehnert View Post
    Don't think it is anything to get bent out of shape about. His playpen, his rules. If One don't like it, Move on.
    Doesn't this kind of reasoning apply to everything under the sun?

    If a customer was ripped off by a telecom deal, the telecom could use the SAME defense to brush off its criticism
    If a tool maker sold a bad product, it could give the poor buyer when he or she complained exactly the same reply: Our terms.
    If an airline booted out a passenger from the plane, it could handily point to the small print on the back of the ticket to defend its action. Our rules...that was until it was on the news.

    It is too easy and convenient to say move on if you don't like the rules, the company, etc. A lot of big companies (too many to name) are exactly relying on ordinary people to use this kind of logic to think so they can continue their business malpractices. These companies have the silent majority to thank for.

    Move on, I would -- but only after I have had a chance to point out where it was wrong.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 11-23-2017 at 2:35 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Doesn't this kind of reasoning apply to everything under the sun?

    If a customer was ripped off by a telecom deal, the telecom could use the SAME defense to brush off its criticism
    If a tool maker sold a bad product, it could give the poor buyer when he or she complained exactly the same reply: Our terms.
    If an airline booted out a passenger from the plane, it could handily point to the small print on the back of the ticket to defend its action. Our rules...that was until it was on the news.

    It is too easy and convenient to say move on if you don't like the rules, the company, etc. A lot of big companies (too many to name) are exactly relying on ordinary people to use this kind of logic to think so they can continue their business malpractices. These companies have the silent majority to thank for.

    Move on, I would -- but only after I have had a chance to point out where it was wrong.

    Simon
    Simon, all your examples involve a customer paying the service/goods provider, not free content provided by someone on youtube. If you paid money to enter the giveaway, your examples would apply...in this case it's a little off.

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