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Thread: Neander starter tools

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Issaquah, Washington
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    Scott,
    Welcome to the Creek, joining here is a great place to start.

    I have a somewhat different view from some on the rehabbing of old planes, I believe it is a better exercise for the intermediate folks. A beginner rarely knows/understands what the real standards the end product should perform to, I recommend that you buy affordable quality to start with, learn to use a couple of these planes and then try rehabbing an older Stanley. Lee Valley has a "Starter Set" consisting of: LA Block, Small BU Smoother and LA Jack for about the same money as your 2 WoodRiver planes (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...87&cat=1,41182). These three planes will allow you to do a significant amount of work right away for between $530 (O1 iron) and $569 (PMV 11 iron) and you will never out grow them or their usefulness.

    LV also has a nice set of three joinery saws at a good price.

    Regards - Bill
    Last edited by Bill McNiel; 11-24-2017 at 2:39 PM.

  2. #17
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    Jun 2010
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    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
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    Yep...always fun to spend other peoples' money......

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
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    75
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    You are welcome to come over to Bellefontaine, OH, and visit my Dungeon Shop. You are free to try any and all hand tools in the shop.....including both Stanley and Millers Falls hand planes. Handsaws, chisels, drills.....whatever. I tuned all up into very good users. PM for details......
    I would love to take you up on that offer, but it is about an 8 hour drive from my house just west of Philadelphia!

    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post

    The OP didn't mention if he will prep stock with machines or not. Nor did he mention his sharpening kit. Those two factors have more to do with what planes to get than any other. Grinder with water stones will allow a different kit than no grinder with oil stones as does machine prep.

    ken

    ken
    I would be prepping my stock by hand, and my sharpening kit is currently a set of 3 diamond stones (300 grit > 1200 grit) which has served me well thus far.

  4. #19
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    Sep 2007
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    Longview WA
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    I would be prepping my stock by hand, and my sharpening kit is currently a set of 3 diamond stones (300 grit > 1200 grit) which has served me well thus far.
    You may want to invest in more sharpening equipment. Most of the time when my blades need attention my starting point is a 1000 grit stone. This will take care of small nicks and dulled edges. In your case a higher grit stone and a stropping set up may be all that is needed.

    Of course it seems there are as many different ways to sharpness as there are people trying to obtain a sharp edge.

    My shop is unheated. In the winter my sharpening is done on oilstones. In the warmer months my sharpening is done with water stones. They can both produce a sharp edge, they are just a bit different in the process.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #20
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    Jul 2017
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    Lancaster, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    You may want to invest in more sharpening equipment. Most of the time when my blades need attention my starting point is a 1000 grit stone. This will take care of small nicks and dulled edges. In your case a higher grit stone and a stropping set up may be all that is needed.

    Of course it seems there are as many different ways to sharpness as there are people trying to obtain a sharp edge.

    My shop is unheated. In the winter my sharpening is done on oilstones. In the warmer months my sharpening is done with water stones. They can both produce a sharp edge, they are just a bit different in the process.

    jtk
    Thanks Jim! Forgot to mention that I also use a strop.

    Reason I went with these stones is because I've gotten most of my knowledge from Paul Sellers who uses a similar type of stone/grit as the ones I purchased. I've also been watching Rob Cosman a bunch too, and he uses a 1k grit diamond stone and a 6k + 16k water stone. I may invest in a 6k water stone to see how much of a difference it makes.

  6. #21
    1200 grit waterstone is usually where I start with my normal sharpening procedure, unless I'm re-establishing a bevel, which will be with a slow speed grinder or a 220 grit diamond stone. Paul Sellers does a great service for getting people starting into woodworking and realizing that they don't need all the gadgets and expensive tools to build stuff, but you will almost certainly notice a difference if you finish with a higher grit stone (8k is a good finishing stone.) . Honing guides can also be helpful for certain tools for beginners (and experienced folks alike.)

    Also, if i had limited budget and was starting fresh with hand planes I would wait on the #7 jointer plane for a bit. I would get a low angle, adjustable mouth block plane (the LN 60 1/2 is totally worth the money), a #4 sized smoother, and a 5 or 5 1/2 sized jack. I have a 5 1/2 that I like and use all the time and it can certainly do the work of a jointer 90% of the time with a straight iron. I would get a couple of different iron/chipbreaker setups for both the smoother and the jack. One setup with a heavily cambered grind for scrubbing away rough stock and heavy material removal and another setup for finer, lighter, finishing cuts.

    Trying to refurb and tune up old Stanleys as a beginner may prove to be frustrating, but with research, patience and persistence, it can provide you will a solid foundation of hand plane knowledge and potentially help your wallet. It will be a steeper learning curve than spending the money on new, high quality planes. I'd personally choose between Veritas and LN only for new planes, but that's just me.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell View Post
    (edit)
    Trying to refurb and tune up old Stanleys as a beginner may prove to be frustrating, but with research, patience and persistence, it can provide you will a solid foundation of hand plane knowledge and potentially help your wallet. It will be a steeper learning curve than spending the money on new, high quality planes. I'd personally choose between Veritas and LN only for new planes, but that's just me.
    My feeling is this is likely dependent on one's familiarity with working on mechanical things. My whole life has been taking things apart and putting them back together. Someone who is uncomfortable changing the oil in their car might have a totally different experience than someone like me who had no qualms about pulling the engine out of his car and rebuilding it at home.

    If a person doesn't have the experience with mechanical things or a friend who is willing to help, then maybe it would be best to purchase something that is supposed to work right out of the box. Someone with a bit of experience will likely benefit from rehabilitating an old plane to learn the ins and outs of setting up a plane.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    My feeling is this is likely dependent on one's familiarity with working on mechanical things.
    Undoubtedly.

    Another piece of that is knowing what the tool feels like when it's actually working well - and if someone is coming at it totally cold, they won't necessarily be able to tell if they've gotten the plane all the way back to good working order, or or only partially - even if they're the type to be confident diving right in on the rehab.

    That's where starting with a well performing plane comes in. If you've got the baseline of "yeah, this is what a plane feels like when it's running sweetly", then the rehab work you put into that second, or third, or Xth plane is going to be that much more successful.

    EDIT - Looks like Bill, above, said pretty much exactly what I just did. Oops. Gotta remember to read the whole thread next time...
    Last edited by sean contenti; 11-24-2017 at 8:37 PM. Reason: Someone already said what I did

  9. #24
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    Jun 2010
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    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
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    There is one alternative to this L-N, LV sales pitch.......there are refurbished planes out there, by reputable sellers. The tools have been restored to when they were new....and are usually ready to preform right out of the mailing box. Might ask around, and see who provides such restored tools.....

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lafayette, Indiana
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    What do you have for work holding? If you don't have one, I'd suggest a work bench should be one of your first projects. It will make dovetailing, planing, joinery experience with hand tools much more satisfying if you have a sturdy bench and some work holding options.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    Lancaster, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A Faulkner View Post
    What do you have for work holding? If you don't have one, I'd suggest a work bench should be one of your first projects. It will make dovetailing, planing, joinery experience with hand tools much more satisfying if you have a sturdy bench and some work holding options.
    Right now I have a 22"x60" workbench that I made out of construction grade 2x4 & 2x6 with two laminated sheets of 3/4" plywood for a work surface. It works "ok" for now, plus it only cost a total of $45.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean contenti View Post
    Undoubtedly.

    Another piece of that is knowing what the tool feels like when it's actually working well - and if someone is coming at it totally cold, they won't necessarily be able to tell if they've gotten the plane all the way back to good working order, or or only partially - even if they're the type to be confident diving right in on the rehab.

    That's where starting with a well performing plane comes in. If you've got the baseline of "yeah, this is what a plane feels like when it's running sweetly", then the rehab work you put into that second, or third, or Xth plane is going to be that much more successful.

    EDIT - Looks like Bill, above, said pretty much exactly what I just did. Oops. Gotta remember to read the whole thread next time...
    Getting the feel of a well tuned plane is a bit more than opening a box and go. Scott mentioned something about his location that lets me know he wouldn't be able to drop into my shop and try a few planes. Steven made the offer and is still a bit of a drive. Maybe someone closer will offer or he may meet someone who can mentor him on using a plane.

    One of my reasons for suggesting a quality block plane first is they are the lowest cost of the premium planes. They are also a bit easier to set up and get results.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Michiana
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    3,047
    Some good advice here. Let me offer some of my own...

    I started down the path of all Neander woodworking, but my limited free time led me to a mixed approach like you are undertaking. I have lots of hand tools I rarely use, including jack and jointer planes. Consider adding a lunchbox thickness planer to your complement of power tools. It makes quick work of thicknessing rough cut stock.

    If I had it to do all over again, I would focus my initial purchases on a smoother and tools to make joinery. Since you already have chisels, I'd suggest:

    A #4 Smoother. Buy a good one. I've refurbed a few and they work well, but I would have been time and money ahead just buying a Lie-Nielsen.
    A #80 cabinet scraper. Cheap and very useful.
    A #60 1/2 Low Angle Block plane - Another vote for Lie-Nielsen. I've refurbed several Stanleys and my LN 60 1/2 smokes them all.
    A Medium Shoulder plane or Rabbet Block Plane. I've found these useful for Mortise and Tenon joinery. I have the Veritas (Lee Valley) version of the Shoulder plane.
    A good Dovetail Saw (rip) and companion Carcass Saw (Crosscut). I have multiple examples of each. Most are antiques that I bought cheap and refurbished. All work very well. When I want to get precise I pull down my LN versions.

    Above all, get yourself a sharpening jig and a good set of sharpening media. There are lots of choices. Do a forum search for sharpening and you'll see! Once you really learn how to sharpen you'll get 100% out of your edge tools. Dull tools are no fun to use.
    Last edited by Rob Luter; 11-25-2017 at 8:16 AM.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South West Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Winter View Post
    Right now I have a 22"x60" workbench that I made out of construction grade 2x4 & 2x6 with two laminated sheets of 3/4" plywood for a work surface. It works "ok" for now, plus it only cost a total of $45.
    Building your own bench reduces the cost substantially and you have to start somewhere. Look at your total budget for the next 3 years and try to decide how much the most important tool in your workshop is worth. Dog holes, hold downs and vises on a laser beam flat bench make your life much easier and your work more accurate. Many on here will attest to that.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
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    75
    All,

    I really appreciate all of the advice I've received thus far. I think I have narrowed down what I'm going to start off with.

    LN scrub plane
    LN #62
    LN #4 or #5 (this is still up for debate, but I'm leaning towards the #4 just because I'll have the size already with the 60 1/2)
    LN 3/4" Shoulder Plane
    LN Router Plane
    Veritas Dovetail & carcass saw
    Going to pickup a 4000/8000 wet stone to go along with my current diamond plates

    That's roughly $1300 worth of new tools which isn't too terrible, but I will likely see what I can find used to save a few hundred bucks overall. I really do appreciate everyone's input!!!
    Last edited by Scott Winter; 11-25-2017 at 12:52 PM.

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