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Thread: One more about the Veritas VMII chisels

  1. #1

    One more about the Veritas VMII chisels

    In my opinion, these chisels stay sharper longer than any others I've used, and they are not hard to sharpen.

  2. #2
    Dennis, what sharpening media are you using? Diamond, ceramic, etc?

  3. #3
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    Info-mercial?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Info-mercial?
    You bet.

    But that's not restricted to one particular company or brand, AND certainly not to new tools only.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 11-30-2017 at 3:36 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Info-mercial?
    And for just 35 easy payments of $19.99 I will send you a set!

    My set seems to get and stay pretty sharp. I always feel like I am abusive to my chisels when I am cutting my dovetails. I really need to reread Derek's post about what angles he uses..... I have not done any testing to see which requires less frequent honing during use.

    I will admit, however, that for most things I just grab the closest properly sized chisel and use it; I try to keep all of them sharp and ready to.

    I have been practicing my half blind dovetails since I have that fancy new half blind tool from Ron (https://www.bontzsawworks.net/half-blind-dovetail-tool/). Some day I might make one from a paint scraper like someone here did..... Then again, the one I have works very well so far, and since time is at a premium, maybe not.

    I grabbed a mortise chisel to clear the initial waste from the half blinds, at least for the last couple that I did.

  6. #6
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    I grabbed a mortise chisel to clear the initial waste from the half blinds, at least for the last couple that I did.
    That sounds a bit awkward.

    My last foray into half blind dovetails had me using a forestner bit to remove the initial waste. It did speed things up, but a mistake can be nasty. DAMHINT!

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Droege View Post
    In my opinion, these chisels stay sharper longer than any others I've used, and they are not hard to sharpen.
    Tools always seem to bring out the religous zealots. There are guys on this, and other, forums who simply cannot abide anything nice being said about a tool or manufacturer on the "other side". So-called premium tools drive the bargain hunter wild. And bargain tools aapear to threaten the self esteem of those that paid more .. often a lot more. Let's not even begin to discuss which sharpening stone or method is better.

    I have done tests on tools to determine some factors, such as the longevity of the edge of different chisel steel types. This type of test is not to be constued as "which chisel is best". The fact is that there are too many factors in choosing a chisel that make this an impossible mission. For example, how does one decide on such subjective issues involved in the design of a handle? What is comfortable to me may not be so for you, or what I like in the aesthetic department is sure to irritate another.

    But one thing I can say with confidence is that the PM-V11 steel blades will last longer than the HCS of a vintage Stanley 750 or a Marples boxwood (I have sets of both), since I have compared these and written about them. The results were decisive. PM-V11 scored 100 goals and 1950 (whatever) HCS score 10.

    This has nothing to say about the chisel I like to use. I have a set of PM-V11 that live on my bench. I also have a set of Marples boxwood that do the same. For chopping or heavier work, the PM come out. The handles of the Veritas are really great in my hands, but I do prefer the slimmer and lighter blades of the Marples ... what I do not like is that the edges need more frequent work, and usually when I am hyperfocussing on a task. I also love the Blue Spruce chisels I have owned for more than a decade. This is the original set of detail/dovetail chisels. Beautiful chisels, exceptional handles, and I love their lightness. Not mad about the A2 steel ... although, to be fair, it gets really sharp and hold this longer than the HCS.

    The Veritas live on my bench for the simple reason that they are a great allrounder. They do a bit of everything well. The edge holding is shaded by Japanese chisels, such as Koyamaichi. The handles are excellent, although the Blue Spruce are nicer looking and the boxwood Marples just have this amazing aesthetic to my eyes. I do wish that Veritas would bring out a set of PM chisels with slimmer blades, something along the lines of the BS. But perhaps they might not then chop as well, and their top all rounder status be lost.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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    Earlier made HCS steel offer me too many advantages to change.

    Stewie;

  9. #9
    I use Cast Steel chisels (English, 19th Century). Whenever I try to duplicate Derek's tests I get better results for longevity than any of the chisels in his tests. This may be due to sharpening media, sharpening technique, or technique in using the chisels as well as properties of the chisels themselves.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    I use Cast Steel chisels (English, 19th Century). Whenever I try to duplicate Derek's tests I get better results for longevity than any of the chisels in his tests. This may be due to sharpening media, sharpening technique, or technique in using the chisels as well as properties of the chisels themselves.
    Warren, what can anyone say? Anyone here with an intimate knowledge of cast steel chisels? I do have Ward oval bolstered mortice chisels, which are laminated. They are excellent blades. I have never used a Butcher bench chisel. I would not know where to find one. I do keep an eye out, but all I have seen (on eBay) are worn out versions. They would not tell me anything. No doubt you could pop down to your local market and find some. Not happening any time soon in my neck of the woods.

    As to technique, no doubt you are streets ahead of me. I am not competing with you. Are you competing with me? I report what I find, providing as much documentation so that others - like yourself - can replicate what I did. I mentioned earlier why I like what I like. I don't expect everyone to agree.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post

    As to technique, no doubt you are streets ahead of me.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Why being so humble, Derek?

    Unless someone knows and uses a super-secret technique that we don't know, your sharpening technique is fine and is just as good as anyone else's.

    I am now convinced sharpening has been made to appear to be hard because of all the hair-splitting discussions. To a great extent, that was why many beginners found Paul Seller's method refreshing and do-able. I call it a no BS approach using just diamond stones with no maintenance costs. Rob Cosman jumps from 1000x to 8000x and his technique is fine, too. So is the meticulous approach of David Charlesworth. Needless to say, mine works just as well which is different from all of the above.

    Simon

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    I read the above as referring to technique in use rather than sharpening. I see many people holding the blade and chopping this is very hard on the chisel edge. I see also people using the back in scenarios where the bevel should be used, this too is harder on the tool.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  13. #13
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    Brian, I also understand it being about technique.

    When chopping, I do not take more than 1mm slices (at most).



    Two different individuals may use the same blade and get different results. I'd say my technique is appropriate. That is not to say it cannot be done better.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    I read the above as referring to technique in use rather than sharpening.
    If indeed Derek was referring to technique in use, I, for one, would like to know and am eager to learn what super-secret chisel technique that someone is using and that Derek is not aware of. Or, what chisel technique that Derek thinks he is streets behind.

    Simon

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Brian, I also understand it being about technique.

    When chopping, I do not take more than 1mm slices (at most).



    Two different individuals may use the same blade and get different results. I'd say my technique is appropriate. That is not to say it cannot be done better.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    The picture was helpful.

    That's one approach or technique, a slow one. Another approach which I also use now and then (depending on my mood and type of wood!) is to bang the heck out of it in 2mm slices or more (?) (never measured them). That's quick, furious may I say. Yes, edges dull quicker, but honing the edge back (32 - 35 degrees, again never used an angle gauge to check) takes just seconds (or a minute or two tops; again never timed it).

    So, techniques are important but different techniques may bring the same outcomes..."streets ahead" or behind most likely is just a perception thing here.

    Simon

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