Overwhelmed with a project and feeling stuck in place

[Matthew Bennett DC]

Hello everyone and happy Monday,

Ok... basically I can't start building up my workshop or do any new wood projects until I finish my current project which has been daunting because it's my first time and I think I bit too much this time.

So... I decided to build a new paver patio despite never doing one before. Naturally, I studied for over two month before ordering bricks and material. I went ahead and dug out the old concrete pad and dug down to the appropriate depth for gravel and sand. However... there is a technical issue that is boggling me down as I really do not want to make a mistake and be miserable for the next 10+ years. Simply stated, I am not confident despite extensive research on google.

So... I live in Silver Spring, MD and was wondering if any of you know and willing to refer someone within reasonable drive that have experience doing patios with pavers? I would love to have someone come over to study the issue, and give me instructions on what to do. I want to clarify that I am only asking for knowledge, not labor. I plan to pay for his/her time as time is valuable to all of us.

I already contacted a few paver companies and they all refuse to be hired to give consultation as opposed to doing the work themselves. I completely understand that they prefer to do the project themselves as it pays more. I just know I can do it on my own with laborers after getting some technical feedback.

Anyway, here's the pics ;-)

20171028_110852.jpg20170906_192942.jpg20170820_101521.jpg20170805_113925.jpg
Matt

[Mel Fulks]

One frequent fault is the spreading out of the pavers. Concrete footings under mortared perimeter will hold up well.

[Matthew Bennett DC]

Unfortunately concrete footings are beyond my means and research shows that a highly compacted gravel foundation and edging around the perimeter are good enough to last for decades. I know the whole project can be done in two week as preparation is already done but I want to pay someone to come over to examine the technical issue so I can move forward with confidence.

[Ted Calver]

If you describe the problem you might get some possible solutions that would work.

[Matthew Bennett DC]

If you describe the problem you might get some possible solutions that would work.

That would be hard to do without accompanying pictures. I'll take pics when I get home and compose a detailed description of the issue later tonight. I know the solution but am scared of the possible errors due to my inexperience. I guess I am just scared due to my inexperience and I haven't touched the project since 2nd week of Oct due to my fears!

Anyway, will get back to you with pics later tonight.

Matt

[Mel Fulks]

Your message is clearly stated....but does not include what the problem is. I suggest taking a shot at describing the specific issue, and let us advise. If you fail in making it clear enough we will tell you and you can add detail. I suggest starting a new thread in Off Topic Forum, someone will give you a helpful free reply. I see now we ARE in off topic forum.

[Mike Cutler]

Matthew

I think you're in the middle of "paralysis, by analysis". Everyone has been there, so no worries.
Take pictures of what has you stuck and try to write it as well as you can. I have no no doubt that someone here can either instruct you, or point you in the correct direction.
As long as you're not trying to skirt some type of code requirement, you should be able to move forward.

[Matthew Bennett DC]

Ha, that's my name; Mr. Paralysis by analysis! Once I am home from work, I will take pictures, do drawings and explain what is paralyzing me. I am hoping to get it done before Christmas. Realistic timeline? probably not but always good to have goals.

By the way, skirting codes is not my cup of water. In fact, it's the opposite which is why I am always broke ;-)

Matthew

I think you're in the middle of "paralysis, by analysis". Everyone has been there, so no worries.

[Mike Cutler]

By the way, skirting codes is not my cup of water. In fact, it's the opposite which is why I am always broke ;-)

You should have no problems then.

[Mel Fulks]

I bet it is an awkward grade issue. I had one that needed a set of steps, pavers , a retaining wall and a lot of dirt. Had a difficult time with the plan. Used clay at the kitchen table to design. And lots of sticks and strings outside. I didn't do any of non paper work. A pro could have done the design a lot faster, but not better. I did hire a landscape designer to draw a simple plan. Expensive enough, but too bare bones. It did demonstrate that I was going to have to just plan it myself.

[Matthew Bennett DC]

Hello, here's the promised explanation with pics.

I really appreciate the help and attention you have given me with a project that is not related to woodworking. Well, kinda indirectly related to woodworking because I am banned from doing anything related to wood until the patio is over ;-(


Anyway, please take a quick glance at the layout pic before reading further so you can follow what I am saying.

layout.png


First of all, the backyard slopes against the house which means I have to make sure the patio is much higher up from the ground starting from the house and be only half inch above ground at the end part.


1. If you would look at pic #1, you will see that the new level of the new patio will be raised considerably above the ground and with 1 inch slope every ~10 feet, the patio will be approximately 1/2 inches above ground at the end.

1.jpg


1a. Obviously I will need to add two rows of retaining blocks for a few feets until the ground catches up with the patios.


2. Now, look at the layout and you will see that the patio starts to gradually slope downward to level out with the concrete pad at the top of the stairsway that leads to my soon to be magnificant workshop.


Now, please look at pic #2 and you will notice that the ground is slightly higher than the concrete pad. so if the patio levels out and be the same level as the concrete pad, the pavers will be at least 1/2 inches below ground level. That's a big no no.

2.jpg


If I raise the pavers to be 1/2 inches above the ground, it will be almost 1 inches above the concrete pad.


Option #1. Raise the concrete pad to be level with the patio and be 1/2 inches above ground level. However, the first step down the stairway will be considerable deeper than the remaining steps (not sure if code allows that).


Option #2. Raise the pavers to be a few inches above the concrete pad. This will not look nice and probably be a tripping hazard for people walking off the concrete pad.


option #3. ???


What should I do? I am adding misc pics to give you a better understanding of my job site. Enjoy ;-) and thank you so much for any feedback or suggestions you may have about my dilemma.

20170805_114020.jpg

20171028_110852.jpg

[Paul F Franklin]

I was going to suggest just regarding the area next to the pavers so the ground is below the level of the pavers, but I see you have quite a slope toward the house, which is not ideal in any case, but it doesn't give you much room to regrade. I would consider adding (or having a mason add) 2" or even 4" sandstone caps to the top of the stair walls. Then I would re-pour that little slab so it makes one more step (same rise as the others). Then I would slope the pavers up to be level with the new height of the slab. They should also slope slightly away from the house so rain ends up flowing to the lawn, not into your shop.

Good luck with your project, and hope you get into the shop soon!

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

You are not going to get a good solution. Expert or no expert. You are trying to fight physics. The pad is lower than the surrounding grade and given that water runs down hill.....

Can you "V" the patio so that it slopes into the middle?

[Stephen Tashiro]

First of all, the backyard slopes against the house

That seems to be a tradition among builders. Instead of having a good site plan,. they just level off enough land for the floor of the house and leave everything else to chance.

You'd be better off putting a low retaining wall on the uphill side of the patio and constructing the patio so it slopes slightly away from the house.

Technically the bottom of a brick veneer masony wall on a concrete slab should have weep holes or some provision to allow any water that gets into the wall to flow out. If you build outdoor things against the wall above the top of the slab, you make that impossible. Of course, some people don't worry about roof leaks or leaky pipes in walls - or some overly enthusiastic pressure washing of the exterior.

After a rain, where do you want the puddles on the patio to be? Near the house or away from it?

[Mel Fulks]

I would give up the idea of using pavers there. Would build a deck type base topped with common 3/4 inch good one side plywood. Sturdy and sloped at least 1/8 th inch per foot. Plywood would have cotton duck (light canvas) glued to the good sides before installed on framing. Polyurethane caulking between adjoining edges. Surface would be painted or solid color stained with a lozenge square pattern in two colors. If that surface is low enough no railing is required. This is a real old proven treatment. Deck would direct water ,keep the ground under dry. My project required a lot of new dirt ,but the pavers went on a surface dug out to hard pan. Any questions gladly answered.