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Thread: Table saw safety reminder

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Roy Petersen View Post
    Though I don't doubt your experience, I question the safety of that, unless you have unnaturally long arms. Here's a picture showing someone standing in a position making that left hand hold possible...
    Attachment 373182

    ...
    I have never, and would never use the position shown in the photo, standing so far away from the fence, with virtually zero control of the workpiece. It would be ridiculous to place both hands together at that point shown. My right hand would be between the fence and the blade, with my thumb pushing the workpiece, rather close to the blade line, and possibly at least my pinky wrapped over the fence. My left hand would be in a similar position, but on the other side of the blade, pushing the offcut through (if the blade was through).

    Only when I am trimming to size (when there is no offcut) do I use my left hand on the far side of the blade to insure the workpiece stays down and against the fence.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy bessette View Post
    I have never, and would never use the position shown in the photo
    But you stated this: "I do not reach "over" the blade; I am off to the side, reaching "around" the blade"
    I picture it similar to that image, though maybe not that exaggeratedly left of center, since you'd have to be standing there to not reach around the blade on it's left while holding and pushing near/at the fence with your right.
    Only when I am trimming to size (when there is no offcut) do I use my left hand on the far side of the blade to insure the workpiece stays down and against the fence.
    It's this I was referring to. For you to have your right hand on the fence, and your left hand *past the spinning blade*, you'd need to be leaning in, placing both hands and your torso nearer to the blade (and in the throw zone) than I'd find prudent.

    Maybe my imagination just isn't good enough to picture that as safe?
    Perhaps you could show a pic with your hands (and the saw not running) and position doing what you say you do safely?

  3. #63
    Roy--I don't see how something this simple requires a special photo session. Mock it up yourself. Place your body where it is just to the left of the cut line, your right hand pushing the workpiece being trimmed, and your left hand on the far side of the blade, resting firmly on the table, with your thumb and forefinger pressing the work against the table and fence. So simple and safe.

    Note: This procedure (left hand on far side of blade) is used just as you go to push the last bit of the workpiece through, when you can no longer hold the trimmed piece down from behind the blade.
    Last edited by andy bessette; 12-07-2017 at 10:05 PM.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  4. #64
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    I think maybe I'm reading it wrong.
    The original post was about someone pushing from the right only, and doing so incorrectly, causing the wood to pivot into the path of the blade.
    You stated you'd hold the outfed wood from the left on the other side of the blade. To me, that means holding the wood beyond the spinning blade, not to the left next to the blade, but past it, as it leaves the blade after the cut is done. That would mean your right hand is on the fence, now near the spinning blade, and your left hand is fully beyond the blade, holding the workpiece against the fence at the other end. As both hands are naturally connected via your torso (if all goes well), that puts you in the middle of the dangerous bits.

    They way I'm reading it, it sounds like the dangerous way. You seem to think it's not, so I wanted to see some pic just to show where your hands would be as the wood was leaving the blade. It's ok if you don't, I'm just not seeing it mentally. I'd find a pic to show what I think you mean here, but after the 7th or so image of someone's accident, I gave up.

  5. #65
    I can't fathom how anyone could think reaching over (or around) a saw blade to hold a piece of wood against the fence during a rip is a good idea. Just the thought of it gives me the heebie jeebies. One false move, slip up, sneeze, wood warping as you cut and kicking back, etc. and you've probably lost part of your hand or worse, sliced through major blood vessels in your forearm.

    Oh well, everyone does what they're comfortable with and to each their own. It was only 25 or so years ago when less than half of Americans wore seatbelts, so I guess everyone has a different risk tolerance. For me, I only get one set of hands in this life and I prefer to err on the side of protecting them.

  6. #66
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    I agree w/Brian. Just bcause the fella had a slight disagreement with his tablesaw doesn't make him an expert. I haven't had a chance to look at the video yet, but common sense would've prevented his accident, & therefore there would be one less advocate on utube telling folks how it should be done.
    Sawdust703

  7. #67
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    May 2015
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    St. Francis, Kansas
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    I'm not afraid to say that after 26 years of wood workin', I'd never been bit by my ts, bs, ras, none of my tools. But last week I became a statistic. I had a distraction in the shop, which I rarely have. I was cutting strips on the ts for Christmas ornaments, & this young man got to teasin' my dogs. One of the dogs barked, & I was 6" from the end of the cut. When I looked up, I apparently didn't stop feedin into the blade, & that's when I got it from the saw. The inside of my left thumb. A rip blade on the saw, it cut about 1/4" off the top & inside of my right thumb. Two days in the hospital, & some stitches, it's sore, but, I've been released to go back to the shop.

    The point of the case is distraction. My saw don't have covers, riving knife, or any of that other fancy stuff! And no, this little accident isn't going to make me put it on it, or consider a saw stop. I'll just keep on usin' it the way it is. Oh, & no worries of a u tube video, either.
    Last edited by Brad Barnhart; 12-08-2017 at 3:51 AM.
    Sawdust703

  8. #68
    Rod thank you for your post

    Please see link below for more information


    http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/index.htm

    and

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/video.htm
    Last edited by Brian Deakin; 12-08-2017 at 8:19 AM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Barnhart View Post
    I'm not afraid to say that after 26 years of wood workin', I'd never been bit by my ts, bs, ras, none of my tools. But last week I became a statistic. I had a distraction in the shop, which I rarely have.

    The point of the case is distraction. My saw don't have covers, riving knife, or any of that other fancy stuff! And no, this little accident isn't going to make me put it on it, or consider a saw stop. I'll just keep on usin' it the way it is. Oh, & no worries of a u tube video, either.
    Although I disagree with you that safety equipment on a tablesaw is fancy stuff, I admire your courage to share your recent injury, attributing the cause of it to a distraction.

    Simon

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Deakin View Post
    In the cross-cut video, it recommends the area 30mm (12") on either side of the blade as danger zone. I have seen many operators using their mitre saws with disregard for the danger zones marked on the saws. Two very well-known woodworkers (one now retired), for example, were seen on video holding the stock on a mitre saw with their non-dominant hand close to the blade/blade guard -- 6" ? or even less.

    Simon

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Brad Barnhart View Post
    I agree w/Brian. Just bcause the fella had a slight disagreement with his tablesaw doesn't make him an expert. I haven't had a chance to look at the video yet, but common sense would've prevented his accident, & therefore there would be one less advocate on utube telling folks how it should be done.
    The problem is, whether or not he intends to present himself as an expert, that's what people watching his channel will see him as. He will be a role model whether he likes it or not. People look to YouTube for training and assume that anyone on YouTube knows what they're doing. That's a bad assumption, of course, but it doesn't stop it from being true. Anyone making videos on YouTube, especially anyone with a significant following, needs to be held to a higher standard. They have a much more dramatic impact on potentially stupid people who take what the YouTuber has to say, even if it's wrong or dangerous.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Henderson View Post
    Anyone making videos on YouTube, especially anyone with a significant following, needs to be held to a higher standard. They have a much more dramatic impact on potentially stupid people who take what the YouTuber has to say, even if it's wrong or dangerous.
    Did anyone with legal training or qualifications ever study the possibility that these Youtube cowboys, despite their good intentions, could land in legal trouble water, if someone injured himself or herself after copying their "instructions?" I don't recall seeing disclaimers on some of these videos I came across in the past. Even with the disclaimers, I wonder if they are good defenses in court if what they are showing are outright unsafe practices -- which may be unknown to themselves and/or to the viewers. Any legal attorneys here? Or, any case laws that can shed some light.

    Simon

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Gunderson View Post
    I can't fathom how anyone could think reaching over (or around) a saw blade to hold a piece of wood against the fence during a rip is a good idea. Just the thought of it gives me the heebie jeebies. One false move, slip up, sneeze, wood warping as you cut and kicking back, etc. and you've probably lost part of your hand or worse, sliced through major blood vessels in your forearm.
    Emphatically agree.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Steve Demuth View Post
    Emphatically agree.
    Let me guess...you own a Sawstop.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Brad Barnhart View Post
    I'm not afraid to say that after 26 years of wood workin', I'd never been bit by my ts, bs, ras, none of my tools. But last week I became a statistic...and no, this little accident isn't going to make me...consider a saw stop.
    Wow, why?

    Ego?
    Pride?
    Change?
    Learning curve?

    It canít be the cost, as the two days in the hospital cost more than any of the SawStop saws, even w/ insurance.

    Such anti-SawStop mentality even after an avoidable trip to the hospital.

    I actually had the same reaction from my crew when I replaced the Uni with an industrial SawStop.

    Im not trolling but if I went 26 years w/o an accident and then spent 2 days in the hospital I would be filled with regret over not buying a SawStop.

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