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Thread: Epilog Fusion M2 40 or Trotec Speedy 400 (80 or 120 Watt)

  1. #1

    Epilog Fusion M2 40 or Trotec Speedy 400 (80 or 120 Watt)

    Hello! I'm looking for opinions and insight into the Fusion M2 40 and the Speedy 400. My wife and I have a growing business and we'll be purchasing our own laser before the end of the year. I've been in contact with both local salesmen from both companies but thought I would see if anyone cared to share their experiences with either of the above mentioned machines. Also looking on advice for 80 watt vs 120 watt for our particular application.

    - We do a lot of vector cutting 1/4" MDF but would like to cut up to 1/2" MDF if possible as well as other types of wood (hardwoods, baltic birch ply)
    - We do engraving as well, primarily on wood for now
    - I'd like to get into acrylic cutting and engraving
    - rotary attachment isn't an important factor at this point. Would be interested in the addition of a fiber laser down the road.
    - quality, longevity, and customer service are very important. I realize a chinese laser would do just fine but we want to make an investment on the front end that would allow us to offer better quality and more products down the road.
    - should I be looking at any accessories either company offers? Gas kit, vacuum bed, ect. Would they be beneficial in cutting MDF and wood products?

    Both machines seem more than capable for our requirements. We've learned on a Epilog Helix 60 watt and Adobe Illustrator. Also curious if holding out to the next local show (Early January in Toronto, Ontario for us) would be worth it to get an even better deal than year end? I've already received quotes from both salesmen.

    Thank you in advance for any responses!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    1,770
    You'll find a lot of bias on this forum towards Trotec. I do however own the Fusion M2 (32x20 bed) 30-fiber/50-co2 & love the CO2 capabilities (not so much the Fiber). When I purchased it, I had spent months sizing up both Epilog and Trotec. My unbiased opinion or at least an attempt at one - They both have their strengths & weaknesses. However, my conclusion is they are both top rate machines & you'll come to love which-ever you end up with.
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

  3. #3
    Thanks for your response Tim! Curious what you would say the strenghts and weaknesses to each machine would be. Maybe more so the Fusion as you've owned one for a few years? Thanks!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    1,770
    On the Fusion, 1st the Fiber - a gantry style fiber will NEVER compete with the capabilities of a galvo style fiber. The camera system is a waste. They still don't have a good use for it.. as far as I'm concerned it could have so many more possibilities for use. Drives me nuts that the table moves up or down, EVERY time you start the machine. Filter in the back is difficult to get to. Bed size would have been better on the Trotec (Epilog didn't have the 40 back then). Taking the vector table in & out is a pain in the... Was easier in the Mini's - the vector was never removed, you just put a light weight flat plate over it for raster engraving. The price tag on both Epilog & Trotec is absurd.
    This is most of the negative. The positives is a much longer list. Bottom line - Would I buy it again - NO.... However that is just due to the gantry fiber. I would absolutely buy a stand alone Fusion CO2 machine from Epilog again.
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

  5. #5
    William
    As Tim says there is some Trotec bias here and he's right that both are good machines but the largest engraver in the city has traded out 4 Epilogs for Trotecs, one of which is a fiber unit. The next largest in my estimation, recently bought a Speedy 400 to go with his speedy 300. The GM of that operation just ordered a Speedy 360 for his personal use. A good friend in So. Illinois just traded in one of his 2 Epilogs for a Speedy 400 and took delivery this week.

    And yours truly just placed an order today for a Speedy 300 80 watt unit to replace my 45 Watt 300. Look at speed, reliability--mine's 11 years old with one week of downtime. And look at build quality--a hands on look.

    Lastly, the reason I was able to buy a new Speedy 300 is the outstanding resale value of the used Trotecs. I won't quote prices, new or old but think about residual value of the Trotec.

    Merry Christmas to Mike!!!
    Last edited by Mike Null; 12-08-2017 at 3:33 PM.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300 Newing Hall 350
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5 , Engravlab

  6. #6
    Thanks Mike, that's great to know they stand the test of time and hold their value. Congrats on the new machine! Another question I had was on software - currently we've learned on Adobe Illustrator, but i've noticed on here a lot of people use CorelDraw. Is one better than the other when communicating with Trotec's software, or is it merely a preference issue?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    1,770
    Mike is telling the truth.... However... what he didn't say was Epilog equally holds it's value. Both are VERY solidly built machines. As I stated many times, I bought my 1st Epilog used, it was literally pushed off the back of a UPS truck over 4 feet to the street. Minor damage, but no alignment, mechanical , or electrical issues due to the fall. After 10 years of heavy use & still running full power on it's original tube, I just sold it for a good portion of what I paid for it. It'll finally get it's original tube recharged, a bit of clean-up and find a brand new home.
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by William Vanderlaan View Post
    Thanks Mike, that's great to know they stand the test of time and hold their value. Congrats on the new machine! Another question I had was on software - currently we've learned on Adobe Illustrator, but i've noticed on here a lot of people use CorelDraw. Is one better than the other when communicating with Trotec's software, or is it merely a preference issue?
    Adobe Illustrator causes random problems on Epilog and Trotec. I think 90% of the time, you'll be fine with Illustrator, but that 10% of the time, it will drive you insane and you won't get much help from Trotec or Epilog because it's random, none repeatable problems. The user base for CorelDraw with lasers is so huge that they all focus the majority of their problem solving on that. We draw in Illustrator (on Macs) and we save to eps and import those into Corel to run our lasers.

    I agree with Tim, skip the dual tube configuration. I've always felt the Epilog's were easier to use, but the Trotec's were more powerful on the software side of things. That's just my opinion. I felt like artists love the ease of use, while engineering types loved the power and options of more powerful features.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Universal PLS4.60 with Rotary Attachment
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer,
    Ricoh Dye Sublimation Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  9. #9
    Like most others using lasers I work with Corel and have no experience with AI.. The Corel user group is large and help is easily found on youtube as well as engraving forums. A good number of my customers send AI or eps files as Steve mentioned and I have no problem using them.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300 Newing Hall 350
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5 , Engravlab

  10. #10
    Thanks Scott. Almost ready to pull the trigger on a Speedy 400/80watt (probably mid next week). Saw both machines in action yesterday and they are both quality units, but at the end of the day the features in Trotec's software and attention to dust/debris management won me over.

    Thought I'd throw this question your way: Having a hard time deciding between a 2" lens or 2.5" lens. I am already purchasing a 1.5" lens for detailed engraving work, but not sure which other lens would be best for my application. Would be using it for primarily cutting 1/4" mdf and baltic birch, possibly 3/8" as well.

  11. #11
    I'll likely get argued with here, but before plunking down 10's of thou$and$ on a laser you plan to cut with, you SHOULD give the Gravograph LS900 a look. One unique feature no one seems to know about is their smoke evacuation setup for cutting. I don't do much cutting so I don't use this contraption much- mostly because the machine evacuates smoke extremely well even without the hose setup, which works by closing the blast gate in the back, which then 'steers' all the vacuum thru the 2 hoses, this one above the blast gate-
    9e3.jpg
    -which ends up directly in front of the lens head. This draws nearly all smoke away immediately as the material is cut. Note that I don't have this connected correctly since I'm not sure where the lower bracket is
    9e6.jpg

    -the second hose is connected to the solid table- when used with a pin-cutting top, it evacuates smoke from the under the work thru the hole in the table you can see in the pic above...
    9e7.jpg
    Any smoke that does escape will be drawn back normally since the blast gate doesn't fully close the main opening. As I mentioned, I don't use this hose because for what I do it's not necessary, as this machine, with just a HF green blower, evacuates smoke so well anyway- well enough I only have to clean my lens and mirrors like once every 2 months.

    Now, for all I know one of the other machines has such a feature, but if they do I've never seen it...

    Make no mistake, this machine is at least on par with any Trotec, Epilog or Universal. The 900XT machine is even faster than any of them (but only barely, I'm splitting hairs here ).. Gravograph's main issue is they don't have the best CS reputation, but they've gotten better, and who you buy one from makes a difference, if you have a decent rep like I do, you'll be fine. My 900 has served me for 13 years with only a power supply replacement needed (about 6 years ago, had a rebuilt overnighted from France, had it 10am the next morning), a new X belt I changed about 3 months ago, and last month I had to fix a broken stepper motor wire. The only maintenance I've ever done is to lube the table's lead screws, and the occasional wipe of the optics. I've never touched the guide rails, other than to check the X rail when I changed the belt, which still moves like ice on ice with not a trace of slop. All of my engraving settings from day one work the same today, I haven't had to add power or lower speed due to reduced power, it works virtually like new.

    It is at the very least, worth a look... imo



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