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Thread: Question: How to Sharpen Combination Plane Irons

  1. #16
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    Jim, your probably right which is why I asked Tom how he wrapped the film around the drill bit/stick so it won't seep around the edges of the film, if he uses oil. He may just water of maybe nothing??? The oil/water is a recommendation of LV that some may chose or not choose to use.
    Chet

  2. #17
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    No specific way to wrap it. Most of the time just a small piece wrapped over the shank once. I just use it dry, and replace it as needed. Steel in old plane irons is pretty soft, so it cuts easily. The numbered drill bit case has a step every few thousandths, so one will be close enough almost always for small rounded shapes. I have always tried to stay away from old molding planes with any rust, or pitted irons.

    I use Record combination plane irons (came with the almost useless (sorry depth stop design) 044C that I bought new back when they were on the market) in the 55's, but some of the old Stanley irons get the call when needed, like the little Grecian Ogee with Bead. For simpler shapes, the Record irons almost always have it covered.

  3. #18
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    Tom,
    Thanks for the additional input. Somehow I didn't think you used water/oil. I probably won't either, it just seems messier. I will definitely try this system as soon as I receive the sheets you use from LV. I have the diamond film sheets but they tear pretty easily. Thanks again.
    Chet

  4. #19
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    Missedf half my post, as usual......Look at the photo again......on the bead bit (#13) it was honed on the back, AND on the flats on each side of the profile. Profile was fine, did not need bothered with. Who cares....I DO, for one. Prefer a nice rounded bead..to some sloppy looking, half-way close to round .."thing"......iF that is what YOU want, by all means, after all, it is you that will have to look at those results.

    I use a simple, easy to do system.....others may want to over-think, over-complicate.....meh. I want something that WORKS fast, and have a cutter ready to go WHEN I need it. Sometimes, when I pull the cutter out of the box, needs a quick hone, and away we go.....takes longer to set the plane up, than to hone the cutter.

    The two skates, for those not used to one of these planes ( like Pete is) provide the support for the cutters, regardless of the shape. The cutters are bedded on the skates, just like a "normal" plane's frog. Skates ARE the "sole" of these planes.

    Straight cutters...they will get a hone on the bevel. But, that is just the way they are.

    Yep, I go with what works for my shop...YMMV....the OP DID ask what I used.....K.I.S.S.
    Last edited by steven c newman; 12-11-2017 at 7:33 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    I use the diamond lapping film for sharpening some things, but the backing is too fragile for this use.
    Both varieties of AlOx film that LV sells have diamond counterparts on exactly the same polyester backing. The coarse-grained mostly transparent AlOx film is 3M 268L, while the equivalent diamond film is 3M 675L (which LV doesn't sell, but it's easy enough to find). Both are branded as "Microfinishing Film" by 3M.

    The colored AlOx film is 3M 265X, while the diamond equivalent is 3M 668X (what LV sells). They're branded as "Lapping Film". 668X is available in coarser grits than LV sells BTW.

    Of course the diamond films need to see a lot more uses per patch of film to be economical, so even with the same backing/durability as the AlOx I shy away from using them on curved tools as a consequence.

  6. #21
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    Funny part is.....I have to use a magnet to remove a cutter from the holders.......otherwise I get these little cuts in my finger tips......So, I use a magnetic pick-up tool to raise the cutter up far enough to grab somewhere besides them sharp edges....kind of slows things down, while I look for the magnet.... Putting a cutter back in the holder is almost as dangerous to my fingertips...

  7. #22
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    ....kind of slows things down, while I look for the magnet....
    One way around this is to have magnets all around the shop.

    My dexterity must be pretty good. It isn't often a blade catches me. Most of my cuts are from an erroneous grabbing of a blade or when using a rabbet plane after not having used one for a while.

    Though pulling a blade out of the original boxes can be tricky. If it is one of the boxes with two or more rows of cutters then a pair of long nosed pliers helps to get a blade out without blood.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #23
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    Jim,
    I agree about grabbing the rabbet plane the wrong way especially the skewed rabbet.

  9. #24
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    Kind of crowded...
    IMG_1742 (640x480).jpg
    Per the original box..Type 20, Roxton Pond Que. Canada...

  10. #25
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    As the original question was how to sharpen beading blades what follows is how one of mine was sharpened this afternoon.

    Currently it is cold in my shop so oilstones are used. In warmer times my sharpening of profiled blades also used a bunch of water slipstones. Before my having slipstones abrasive sheets were wrapped around things that were about the proper size. One may have to improvise.

    When the subject is sharpening there are many viewpoints. When it comes to sharpening blades with a profile there is no reason to believe it would be any less opinionated of a discussion.

    The easiest method is to hone only the backside of profiled blades. One problem with this is it can leave a burr on the bevel and be a cause of rough looking work.

    Some profiled blades have flat quirks which may need to be honed. Another problem with many profiled plane blades is careless sharpening. If a previous owner has distorted the shape of the blade, it needs to be brought back to match its original shape. In the case of a beading blade if it is wider at the top than at the bottom it will not work well.

    With a combination plane such as a Stanley #45 the only curved profiles one has to worry about in the standard blade set are beads or sash cutting blades.

    These blades can produce clean results or at least satisfactory results with a less than optimally sharpened blade, just like any other plane. Working with a well sharpened blade can make a world of difference, just like any other plane.

    It is amazing how common it is to purchase a used combination plane and find only a few of the blades were ever sharpened.

    One thing that seems common with many of my blades is the factory grind was a bit rough:

    a Before.jpg

    This is a 1/8” blade, one of many blades, that haven’t been sharpened among my blades for a #45. It has typical coarse grinding on the back. The front of the bevel isn’t much better:

    ab The Profile Bevel.jpg

    The blade shown here is a 3/8” beading blade. The grinding marks, especially on the bevel, can make for a rough bead.

    The back does need to be prepared or flattened:

    b Back Flattening.jpg

    This and a slipstone used below are fast cutting stones. My knowledge of what they are is zilch. They do a better job than my crystolon stone.

    The sides also need to be honed for smooth performance:

    c Edge Bevel.jpg

    The edges of a beading blade need to be slightly outside of the skates. Likewise the inside edges of a beading blade need to be slightly inside of the skate. There needs to be a bit of relief on the area behind the leading edge to prevent binding in the cut. Some molding planes also need attention to the sides to work well.

    Honing the profile can be tricky. With the factory grind one may need to remove the grinder marks from the bevel’s surface. It looks like the folks at Stanley were using something like 60 or 80 grit sanding wheels to dress their blades before packing them in to a box.

    Here the profile bevel is being honed with a translucent Arkansas stone:

    d Profile Honing.jpg

    Sometimes the stone is in motion, sometimes it is the blade. The coarse slipstone used at the start of this operation is at the bottom left in this picture.

    The bevel has to also have a relief angle built in. In effect it is wider at the trailing part of the profile than at edge meeting the work. If this was smaller, the work would come to a halt. If it was the same size there would be binding.

    The blade being worked here is a #25 - 3/8” bead blade. The large round edge of the slipstone is just a bit smaller than the bead. The slipstone can be worked at an angle to bring more of its rounded surface in to contact with the surface being worked. In geometric terms the profile of the blade is actually an ellipse. When it is tilted at 45º in the plane it cuts a circular bead. The slipstone or other devices used to work the bevel should be moved around on the profile bevel to equalize the amount of metal being removed. One also needs to be careful to not remove much metal from the sides of the profile. There needs to be enough material on a combination plane to be all around the outside of the skates.

    The result is what counts no matter how the blade is sharpened:

    e Job Well Done.jpg

    This worked quite well. A little wax on the skates and the fence made for smooth work. One technique with cutting beads is to cut them a bit below the surface. This allows a final smoothing of the surface if needed.

    Also note the shavings. They are wide cut from the area of the bead profile. With a rough edge from the factory grind they would more likely be thin ribbons.

    The blade boxes for one set of blades resides on the shelf with my hollow and round planes. To tell one box from the other the ends are marked with a line for the plow blades and a line with a dip for the profile and match blades.

    f Keeping Blades Sorted.jpg

    Another method some folks use for sharpening beading blade is to use a chainsaw file. These are a bit faster cutting than an Arkansas stone so be careful.

    There are many ways to tackle sharpening. If it works, it is probably good.

    Hope this helps.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 12-13-2017 at 3:29 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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