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Thread: Bitcoin?

  1. #16
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    The website of the computer hardware seller NewEgg says that NewEgg accepts bitcoins.

    Is there anyone on the forum that deals with international trade? How expensive or risky is it to do business involving currencies from several nations? Bitcoins would by-pass the process of currency exchange.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    Some recent legitimacy in that Chicago Options Exchange now trading Bitcoin
    The CBOE is not trading Bitcoin, they're trading futures contracts on Bitcoin which is very different.

    But your point is valid that in doing so, they are recognizing Bitcoin as a legitimate commodity against which you can trade futures contracts.

  3. #18
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    I believe they are not trading Bitcoins but FUTURES in bit coin much like pork bellys. I suppose that is for folks for whom trading in bit coin directly simply isn't speculative enough
    My three favorite things are the Oxford comma, irony and missed opportunities

    The problem with humanity is: we have paleolithic emotions; medieval institutions; and God-like technology. Edward O. Wilson

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Tashiro View Post
    The website of the computer hardware seller NewEgg says that NewEgg accepts bitcoins.

    Is there anyone on the forum that deals with international trade? How expensive or risky is it to do business involving currencies from several nations? Bitcoins would by-pass the process of currency exchange.
    NewEgg and others accept bitcoin but they don't hold it for speculation. The bitcoin trades of both buyer and seller occurs almost simultaneously. IMHO bitcoin is far more speculative than international currency trading which has some basis of judgement for value,ie perceived government stability and monetary policies, I don't see how it would bypass international currency exchange rates. If you buy $100 worth of Euros, you've now introduced two flucuating variables rather than one. You might win or you might lose. From what I've observed bitcoin varies a LOT more than currencies which do fluctuate constantly but usually by small percentages over short time intervals. Perhaps I'm over simplifying your question or misunderstood. I've speculated on a few things over the years. Some successfully and some not. None were done using actual knowledge or much research or cost more than I could afford to lose. My financial investment advice is worth exactly what Ive been paid for it .
    My three favorite things are the Oxford comma, irony and missed opportunities

    The problem with humanity is: we have paleolithic emotions; medieval institutions; and God-like technology. Edward O. Wilson

  5. #20
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    Why I'll never invest in Bitcoin

    I just heard that since bitcoin was introduced it has had declines of 80% five times, a little too much for this index investor
    Dennis

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Funny, a lot of cryptocurrency fans believe it is the cold hard cash in your wallet that is the ponzi scheme.
    Gold bugs tend to be in the same camp.
    I guess time will tell who's right.

    One thing I'm quite sure about - the world your kids or grandkids will grow up in will look radically different than the one you grew up in.
    Your world and the world of your parents will look quite similar to each other in comparison
    .
    Take long to think of this statement??? Of course the world will look different if there will be a world. North Korea may have a say in this along with other radicals. Modern man is expanding much faster because there are so many more as opposed to yesteryear. New technology leads to newer technology and so on.

    I do not know anything about Bitcoin and nor do I want to. I hate using credit cards. Give me all your green cash and I will dispose of it for you.
    John T.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by John Terefenko View Post
    Take long to think of this statement??? Of course the world will look different if there will be a world. North Korea may have a say in this along with other radicals. Modern man is expanding much faster because there are so many more as opposed to yesteryear. New technology leads to newer technology and so on.

    I do not know anything about Bitcoin and nor do I want to. I hate using credit cards. Give me all your green cash and I will dispose of it for you.
    John, It actually did take me quite a while thinking about things to arrive at that statement, but then again I won't deny being slower than some.

    In case it wasn't well communicated the first time, basically what I was trying to say is that over a long period of time, change to me seemed to be somewhat constant. My observation over the past decade or so is that the curve of change has moved to a more exponential and less logarithmic rate than in the past. In other words, the speed of change is accelerating, and the extent of change is broadening in a non-linear fashion. It's like taking the principle of compounding returns and applying it to basically everything.

    So while every generation will look different than the one preceding, I'm saying the degree of resemblance between two adjacent generations is diminishing.

    If this is/was obvious to you and everyone else, then I am slow to the party indeed. And/or I wonder if others would agree on the observation at all.

    I'm not endorsing nor trashing Bitcoin or any blockchain cryptocurrency, but I think it's an exciting time in general and I very much look forward to the future.
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 12-11-2017 at 4:32 PM.

  8. #23
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    Edwin your observation actually was the subject of a series of books back in the '70s - Future Shock by Alvin Toffler, which were widely popular bestsellers at the time. What I think causes the acceleration is demographics. The population of the US has more than doubled since I was born, and the world population has almost tripled. I've heard it said that half the people who have ever been alive on earth, are alive today. Don't know if thats true, but the sheer number of people drives things forward - whether better or worse, I dont know. I'm staying away from bitcoin.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    Oh, and what is the intrinsic value of dollars? Or GBP? Or yen? Or gold?

    Bitcoins are valuable because people mutually agree they have value. Just like dollars, pounds, yen, or gold.
    Either you already know better than this, or you are incapable of understanding. Either way, there is no point to answering.

  10. #25
    I'm making this my last comment on this thread. And that promise is to ME. Look up "fiat money" and "legal tender "laws.
    Bit coin is succeeding on the high ground of choice.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Calow View Post
    Edwin your observation actually was the subject of a series of books back in the '70s - Future Shock by Alvin Toffler, which were widely popular bestsellers at the time. What I think causes the acceleration is demographics. The population of the US has more than doubled since I was born, and the world population has almost tripled. I've heard it said that half the people who have ever been alive on earth, are alive today. Don't know if thats true, but the sheer number of people drives things forward - whether better or worse, I dont know. I'm staying away from bitcoin.

    This was my point also. The amount of people contributing to change has increased over years and that is why it is accelerating so fast. You are also improving on things that were not available years ago. This is a natural progression. It is always fun to look back to what things use to be but live in the present and hope the future will hold good things.
    John T.

  12. #27
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    Anyone own bitcoin? Anyone understand what it is? I don't
    -no
    - sort of...it's a currency invented by some guy that appears not to have ever existed.
    - no problem, what you don't know (in this case) will save you money.

    Yeah, like I'm about to wake my wife up and tell her I want to invest about $17 thousand in something invented by some guy that no one has ever met and is some kind of currency that's only accepted at a few places....

    If I did that, she would hurt me. She would hurt me bad. We're talking major beat down. Blood/stitches/sub-whatcha-ma-call-it, hemo - whats-it....ride to the ER ---type of beating...
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  13. #28
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    Who knows how Bitcoin will turn out. Maybe it will be a lasting thing that everyone adopts or maybe another, newer, better technology will come to the fore. Regardless, it is foolish to think that all things monetary will remain the same forever. Many of the folks that claim they will never buy in to this new technology are the same that said they would never use credit cards, or debit cards, or Paypal, etc or invest in the stock market, or T bills, or futures of any kind. Sooner or later you will adopt the new technology or fall by the wayside. I agree that it is relatively foolish to invest in Bitcoins - that isn't for me - but it might be a great speculative investment for some with high risk tolerance (in which case those risk takers may become wealthy). I for one have never understood how the US Govt can claim its money is backed by gold hidden in Fort Knox, yet just print more money any time they need it. They didn't add gold to Fort Knox to print more money - they just did it - so what value in gold does it really have? The price of gold fluctuates fairly radically, does the value of your currency fluctuate along with it? Mine doesn't seem to. Those dollars I stashed away in a mason jar under my porch are still worth just a dollar - same as they did 50 years ago.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I for one have never understood how the US Govt can claim its money is backed by gold hidden in Fort Knox, yet just print more money any time they need it.
    US Dollars are not backed by anything, except the full faith of the US Government. You can use them to pay your taxes; that is about all that is for sure. If the government acts irresponsibly, they will have little value. That is why many people like gold; it has always had value, regardless of what the government does. I don't think it is a good argument, but it is an argument.

    Bitcoins are not backed by anything at all. If, as will inevitably happen, the price starts to fall; then everyone will want to sell them and no one will want to buy them. Then they will go to zero. That will happen, probably in the next year or two; the US government is unlikely to collapse in that time period. But if the US government does collapse, do you think anyone will trade food or fuel for your bitcoins, even if it were possible to do so (which it probably wouldn't be...)?

    You know the old joke; the US Dollar might be the most speculative investment, except for all the others.

    Oh, the government CAN'T print new money. The Fed can print new money which it can invest in Treasuries. It sounds like double talk, but isn't quite, as there is the means to unprint the money as is happening now. They essentially sell the bonds and retire the money.

    I have never understood why we don't sell all the gold in Fort Knox. England sold most of their gold 50 years ago, only to see the price spike, and that would be really unpleasant, but it could just as easily have dropped.
    Last edited by Wade Lippman; 12-12-2017 at 9:55 AM.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    Who knows how Bitcoin will turn out. Maybe it will be a lasting thing that everyone adopts or maybe another, newer, better technology will come to the fore. Regardless, it is foolish to think that all things monetary will remain the same forever. Many of the folks that claim they will never buy in to this new technology are the same that said they would never use credit cards, or debit cards, or Paypal, etc or invest in the stock market, or T bills, or futures of any kind. Sooner or later you will adopt the new technology or fall by the wayside. I agree that it is relatively foolish to invest in Bitcoins - that isn't for me - but it might be a great speculative investment for some with high risk tolerance (in which case those risk takers may become wealthy). I for one have never understood how the US Govt can claim its money is backed by gold hidden in Fort Knox, yet just print more money any time they need it. They didn't add gold to Fort Knox to print more money - they just did it - so what value in gold does it really have? The price of gold fluctuates fairly radically, does the value of your currency fluctuate along with it? Mine doesn't seem to. Those dollars I stashed away in a mason jar under my porch are still worth just a dollar - same as they did 50 years ago.
    Are you aware the United States abandoned the gold standard in 1971 under President Nixon? Since that time there has been no relationship between US dollars and gold.

    The subject you raise about the US Govt (Fed) "printing" more money has been the subject of a great deal of debate and speculation, and is one factor influencing many Bitcoin fans.

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