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Thread: Sliding table saw?

  1. #1
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    Sliding table saw?

    I have a 12/14" Delta table saw and a 10" Powermatic 65. I'm considering upgrading to a 12" slider to both save some space and increase the level of safety. I build mostly furniture, passage doors, and the like, and don't do very much with sheet stock. However, I would like the ability to deal with full size sheets of plywood or melamine when necessary. I have zero experience with sliders, but I have yet to hear about anyone regretting getting one. I don't need computerized readouts and settings, just a basic model, and I would like to stick with either Minimax, Felder or possibly Hammer. Any recommendations or suggestions?

  2. #2
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    I bought my MiniMax slider in about 2006 or so. Zero regrets. Yes...there's a learning curve, but the repeatability and increased safety for many cuts is a boon. And I work mostly with solid stock, although some projects do entail working with sheet goods. SCM/Minimax has an outstanding sale going on right now because of some minor rebranding coming. So it's a good time to consider the new machine. Felder is also very worthy. The one big thing that's different between these two is that SCM/Minimax pretty much packages things in a simple way with few options and uses standard tooling. Felder tends to be a "design your machine" purchase with a large library of options and has a more unique arbor that favors Felder tooling, although many vendors can supply blades with their bore and pin-holes.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
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    Thanks, Jim; which model slider do you have? I've looked at both the Felder and MiniMax website and the choices are pretty overwhelming and somewhat confusing. I have heard that due to the one off nature of the Felder machines the lead time can be considerable. I purchased a MiniMax 20" bandsaw last summer through Sam Blasco at SCM and was pretty happy with the entire experience.

  4. #4
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    There looks to be a nice Felder saw shaper combo on woodweb machinery exchange. Kind of gets you the shaper for free. Dave

  5. #5
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    Dave,

    I've had a Felder K700S slider since 2012 and can't see how I ever did without one. It replaced my Delta Unisaw that I'd outfitted with a JessEm 4' slider table.

    Here's an excellent video that may help you appreciate the advantages and disadvantages of sliders: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmE...hepnFlyXFkWwsQ

    Incidentally, at first I missed having a zero-clearance throat plate, but as you can see from the video which follows, one can be made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_vd-T3hqk&t=213s
    Marty Schlosser
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apexwoodworks/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ApexWoodworksFurniture/
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkmbvXb44CJ9t17SbHEWxJg/videos

  6. #6
    If you are comfortable with used machinery, you can step up a level with a Martin or Altendorf for similar money as a new Felder or MiniMax. Those saws were built to be used hard 40 hours a week for decades and stay in alignment.

  7. #7
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    Hi Dave, I've had my slider (Hammer B3 Winner) which is a saw/shaper with removable outrigger for 7 years.

    Mine has scoring and dado capability.

    Honestly, you could never convince me to go back to a cabinet saw.

    MiniMax, Felder, Hammer, Altendorf make great products.

    The Hammer/Felder advantage for me was that you can customize the machine to work exactly the way you want it. Mine is a short stroke slider (49") with full outrigger.

    It allows me to crosscut a sheet of plywood or a dining room table top, and then become as small as a cabinet saw for space savings.

    Watch lots of videos, Felder have some great ones, and look at all the options/capacities from all the manufacturers. You'll really love any of the machines you select.......Regards, Rod.

  8. #8
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    Dave, I have the S315WS slider. The deal on the current version at about 30% off is a smokin' opportunity, IMHO. The current version is nicer than I have and the sale price is really close to what I paid "a long time ago", if I recall clearly. Give Sam a ring and ask.

    Rod does make and excellent point about Felder relative to the fact that customization can sometimes make one of these machines "more possible" for certain shop situations. And I also agree with him that I'd never want to go back to a traditional North American design cabinet saw...if I had to downsize, I'd get a smaller slider.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #9
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    Mannnnnnnnnn, i wrote up this huge post and lost it.

    Ahem, the short and sweet of my point. I have a 2004 Felder KF700 with 81" slider and the big crosscut fence and outrigger table. These machines are everything you dream of when it comes to crosscutting. I love the workflow and perfection of the process. My one gripe is traditional ripping. It has been downright awful, in my experience. You have to stand way to the left of the blade by the sliding table and feed your workpiece right to left. With the guard in place, a traditional pushstick is impossible to use, which results in using a piece of scrap like you are loading a muzzle loader. It is very poor indeed. This is really for ripping under 6". I can tell you i am extremely happy to still have the unisaw occupying a small footprint for this reason. I would urge you to keep the 65 until you get the slider in and use it for a bit.

    Ive only had my machine a month or two, but these are my first impressions from using it quite a bit.

  10. #10
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    I bought a Minimax SC4 Elite exactly one year ago today. I love that machine both for sheet goods and solid wood. However, I would think carefully about whether or not it will save you space. A slider that can rip a full sheet of ply requires at least 20' length-wise for the slider and 12-15' width-wise for the outrigger and saw. The outrigger will be removable but many slider owners don't remove theirs - myself included. Even if you do remove it, you'll still need space to put it on and use it once in a while, and I wouldn't want to move my 1,500 lb saw around.

    I stongly recommend Steve's (ExtremeWoodworker) series on sliding table saw purchase considerations before you make a decision.

    Best of luck.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    My one gripe is traditional ripping. It has been downright awful, in my experience. You have to stand way to the left of the blade by the sliding table and feed your workpiece right to left. With the guard in place, a traditional pushstick is impossible to use, which results in using a piece of scrap like you are loading a muzzle loader. It is very poor indeed.
    That's why many of us no longer do much ripping along the fence. Part of the learning curve is having new methods become automatic. The best quality cuts will always be with the material on the wagon. And for those times when a narrow rip is best served by the fence, removing the guard and using the fence in the low position permits good vision of the cut, the ability to use a proper push stick and you still remain out of the line of fire for a kickback, which is still less likely with the combination of the riving knife and the fence pulled back so once the material is clear of the blade, it's not going to bind.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    My one gripe is traditional ripping. It has been downright awful, in my experience. You have to stand way to the left of the blade by the sliding table and feed your workpiece right to left. With the guard in place, a traditional pushstick is impossible to use, which results in using a piece of scrap like you are loading a muzzle loader. It is very poor indeed. This is really for ripping under 6". I can tell you i am extremely happy to still have the unisaw occupying a small footprint for this reason. I would urge you to keep the 65 until you get the slider in and use it for a bit.
    With respect to Patrick, this has not been my experience. I occasionally rip something the way you would on an American cabinet saw but I don't have a problem reaching across the table or having the guard get in my way. To be fair, we have different saws so maybe his table is wider or his guard is bigger. On the other hand, with an 8' slider, you can use a Fritz and Franz jig (or a parallel rip setup) to avoid the need to do American-style ripping for almost everything.

    Edit: I meant to say that I agree with Patrick about keeping one American saw. It's nice for dadoes, tenons, small work, or just to have an additional saw. I also wanted to say that there is a benefit to standing on the far side of the table while ripping: no chance of catching kickback.
    Last edited by Brian W Evans; 12-12-2017 at 10:11 AM.


  13. #13
    My issue is that I rarely use stock that is 8 feet or 10 feet short, meaning everything I rip is 12 to 20 feet. A slider is worthless for that. As gas as table saws go, nothing is faster ripping lumber than a big heavy saw with a stock feeder. I rarely use a TS anymore with two SLR's running.

  14. #14
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    All great counterpoints to mine. I mentioned FF jigs and parallel rip cut accessories in the lost longer post as possible work arounds for ripping narrow widths. I havent made a fritz and franz jig yet, which is probably a major oversight on my part. Too busy with a new job and trying to get the machine up and running while simultaneously working on 8 projects. The FF jig is simple and fast to put on and take off, but those parallel guides look like an annoying PITA to put on and then take off 2 minutes later to crosscut a piece and then put back on. I guess im not convinced of the slider as being the one stop perfect tool. Removing the guard to make a rip cut throws the whole "safer than a cabinet saw" arguement out the window from 20 stories up.

    My points probably sound negative towards sliders, and they arent intended to be. In the short time ive used this machine, i can tell you it is brilliant and will be a part of my shop as long as i have space and the means. However, I dont think it is the end all be all of table saws. Just like the cabinet saw sucks are crosscutting and handling large work pieces. Each design has its pros and cons, which is why i advocate for having both. Especially in my case where the felder is my only shaper. I dont need two shapers or a stand alone, but i do need the ability to use a table saw if my shaper hood is in place. Cut the rails off your cabinet saw down to 20-24" if you have to, thats all you will use it for 99% of the time.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    My issue is that I rarely use stock that is 8 feet or 10 feet short, meaning everything I rip is 12 to 20 feet. A slider is worthless for that. As gas as table saws go, nothing is faster ripping lumber than a big heavy saw with a stock feeder. I rarely use a TS anymore with two SLR's running.
    Darcy, all one need do with a slider is lock it, and then you can use table saw the same way as a cabinet saw - rip long boards against the rip fence.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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