Widebelt help ASAP..

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Send a private message to Eric here at SMC. I'm sure he'll respond.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have had good luck with my 3 head Kundig. It’s 15 years old now about the same vintage as the used one for sale. At that time they had 2 models of sanders. The heavier and better built ones were made in Switzerland and the lighter cost engineered ones made in Gotha Germany. If you are still looking at the used one I would check that out because the Swiss ones were more money at the time.

At the time we got this I was networking with some shops that had bought the same machine. Some were not happy and I think because they got a bad install. We were lucky and had a very good tech that spent 4 days setting it up and training. Multi head machines are tricky to calibrate and once you get it best to stay with the same belt mfg and type.

Good dust collection, servicing and clean compressed air are essential to keep these running at top performance. We did a lot of machinery upgrades 18 or so years ago and were having a lot of problems with existing machinery that used compressed air. I bit the bullet and put in a Kasser system and that solved all those issues.

Buying a used sander you need to be very careful.

[Mike Heidrick]

Look into Butfering at Stiles?

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh boy,

Good dust collection, clean dry air, yikes I gots me lotsa work to do before this machine arrives!

We don’t even have a dust collector hooked up to our table saw. Yes on the slider but not the tablesaw. We just let he thing pile up then shovel it out. This is not my decision, it is what it is. When I took the position they were running shapers with fences clamped onto tables so out of square and plumb it was a nightmare to change tooling when it came time. No power feeders nothing. Ok one power feeder but it was so messed up they did not bother even plugging it in.

The five Hp Oneida collecting dust from the shapers was run with big box store HVAVc duct. One day while cleaning up the mounds of chips the dust collectors were not collecting behind the shapers I noticed they has a 5” flex hose wide open on one end no blast gate or anything, Just wide open!

When I asked what the heck it was about and for a explanation they told me “yeah we know just kick it against the side of the machine when you turn on the dust collector and it’s closed”.

Since then i have gotten the whole shop outfitted with Nordfab for the most part, also shapers thAt are not a danger to use. Nothing fancy just old SCMI 110’2 AND 130’s, nice machines though. Oh and powerfeeders. And get this, the guys that said powerfeedrs where not Messiaen run them with everything now.We also have a large three bag bag house that runs the widebelt and the jointer. I can’t remember the brand right now but it’s big and Italian, the logo is blue and red. Why can’t I remember the name.

Anyway sounds like I had better get a air dryer and proper filtration setup on our air lines and get any leaks in our dust collection system ironed out ASAP.

Man o man it is expensive to have a fully functioning shop. I have a home shop of my own with all the goodies except a widebelt for the most part. I guess there are lots of machines I don’t have that we do at work. Pocket hole machines, edge sanders blah blah but that might be it. This wide belt thing is expensive, yikes!

We us it all the time the more I think about it though we we kinda gotta have one we don’t have to worry about. I mean we don’t sit there and run piles of stock through it eight hours a day but it is on and off multiple times a day.

I have had good luck with my 3 head Kundig. It’s 15 years old now about the same vintage as the used one for sale. At that time they had 2 models of sanders. The heavier and better built ones were made in Switzerland and the lighter cost engineered ones made in Gotha Germany. If you are still looking at the used one I would check that out because the Swiss ones were more money at the time.

At the time we got this I was networking with some shops that had bought the same machine. Some were not happy and I think because they got a bad install. We were lucky and had a very good tech that spent 4 days setting it up and training. Multi head machines are tricky to calibrate and once you get it best to stay with the same belt mfg and type.

Good dust collection, servicing and clean compressed air are essential to keep these running at top performance. We did a lot of machinery upgrades 18 or so years ago and were having a lot of problems with existing machinery that used compressed air. I bit the bullet and put in a Kasser system and that solved all those issues.

Buying a used sander you need to be very careful.

[David Kumm]

Depending on the number of heads, a WB doesn't use a lot of air. I can run my single head off a Dental compressor. The big compressor with a big tank will have enough time for the air to cool in the tank so I doubt a dryer would be necessary. Other will know more. I have a dryer but generally only my dynabrades eat enough air that it is needed. Bigger sanders and CNC machines need a better set up. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

Clean, cool, dry air solves a lot of problems across the board.

[Patrick Walsh]

The only reason I mentioned a air dryer is because as noted above when we sand the lines get pretty full of water. Our lines and drops are setup properly and still we have the problem. We run a “I don’t know” 5hp 80 gallon Quincy.

I’m the type that I take care of my stuff new or old, fancy or garbage. I have been given the go ahead to care for the shop and all it’s tools, with the understanding that not everyone has the discipline, desire, mechanical ability or attention to detail or motivation to be as anal retentive for such menial tasks.

I don’t know why I sign up for it other than the fact that my boss is a nice guy, I like working for him, he is pulled to many directions to do it all and I don’t wanna see his hard earned stuff get ruined.

So Joe what do you mean by clean air?

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick, I think a air drier at the least is a good investment in a pro shop. Busy shops, even 2 man can use a lot of air. Water and dirt in the lines will cause problems with everything. We had the traps at every drop and drained them weekly but still that was not enough. Several factors - black pipe and water in the line do not mix, we used air DAs for several years, someone was usually spraying in the finish room, combined with the stationary machines using air and blowing off parts and machines it adds up to a lot. If you wear out a compressor or have a old one that leaks oil into the system that will cause problems as well. Even our Kasser breathed a sigh of relief when we quit using air sanders on a regular basis.

We had problems with finish, major problem with a construction boring machine that all air actuated. Our Martin saw has a fence that locks with air and that was sticking and malfunctioning. If I were buying a used wide belt or any stationary machine that uses air I would want to know what the compressor situation was in the shop it came out of.

[Patrick Walsh]

Wow Joe pretty insightful comment with regard to wanting to know the air setup if buying a used stationary tool.

Really puts into perspective my oppinion that buying this machine “NEW” is the right decision. Further that making sure everything is done to insure it have a long successful life moving forward is tended to. Now the dilemma becomes how do I convince the boss of the importance of a air dryer.

Can you make the most economical suggestion you can for our need. Two three man shop. We sand with air all the time, Blum machine, pocket machine and widebelt use air everyday.

As stated it has kinda been deliberated to me that the machinery be taken care of as I’m the only one whom can be bothered to care combined with a general interest as I do like machines.

I can’t brake the bank though on this one as the boss and we all for the most part have our limitations. I try my best to respect this fact. I see it this way, if my boss is successful I am successful plus it’s just the right thing to do.

[peter gagliardi]

Talk to either a Kaeser rep, a Ingersoll Rand, or Atlas Copco rep. It used to be in MA that you could get either tax savings or a rebate of some sort for putting in a energy efficient compressor- in other words a small 7.5-15 hp rotary screw with VFD drive. They have engineered packages with the compressor and drier together. The savings was substantial when purchasing. The reps should know immediately about this.

[Martin Wasner]

I try my best to respect this fact. I see it this way, if my boss is successful I am successful plus it’s just the right thing to do.

Want a job? (One where you don't have to fix everything?) That's a dying attitude amongst the employed.

[Patrick Walsh]

It is,

It makes working with other employees that dont share the same perspective quite a challenge.

I have never understood the mentality in a small business environment. Generally any of the trades “that the boss is getting rich off of my back”. Quite the opposite from what I have seen after twenty years in the trades. Seems to me often it’s the boss carry the largest burden and working the hardest.

No way I’m gonna get the boss to purchase a new air compressor right now. The cash just is not there. With that said I need to find a way to insure his current setup does not compromise his new machine as economically as I can.

Everyone has their break point and I think he has reached his. It may sound like small money to many but I think this purchase will put him close to if not surpass the $50K mark spent on tools in less than a year. I know you can easily spend that on one machine but that’s just not out shop nor will it ever be.

Now my own personal shop. I have been socking away my pennies for a Martin slider ever since I purchased a Felder combo machine and wanted to shoot myself in the side of the head after the problems I had with it. I’m not trying to make money though in my shop for the most part. It’s more about enjoying my down time the way I want. Like driving a Porsche as apposed to Toyota.

Want a job? (One where you don't have to fix everything?) That's a dying attitude amongst the employed.

[David Kumm]

If you are having water in the air, you need a dryer so disregard what I said about not needing one. I have a Hi Temp dryer for my 5 hp - 80 gal compressor but don't need it for just the small widebelt or in winter much. I do use it all summer or when using close to the max 15 cfm my compressor can deliver. The amount of water in the air depends on not only the humidity but also how much the air is heated when compressed. The slower the pump runs the better. The old Quincy QR pumps were among if not the best made and generally ran on the slower side. You can tell by the pleasant put, put, put sound of them. Newer cheaper compressors ( including some of the lower end Quincys ) can run over 1000 rpm and the air gets hotter. It also depends on whether the pump is single or two stage. Two stage run less so the air can cool more in tank. Find out what type of refrigerated dryer will work best with your particular compressor for your type of usage. Regular dryers with an inlet temp of 110-120 can be found pretty regularly used but need to be low usage and fairly new. Repairing one that is used up costs more than buying new. The Hi temp 170+ inlet temp dryers are more expensive and may or may not be necessary. Hankinson makes a number of types and brands them both in their names and others. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick,
A shop with a few employees can be a quagmire of a money pit. When I did my upgrades I had been in business 25 years, times were good and I was taking advantage of section 179. More difficult now for sure.

I am out of the loop on what’s available now in compressors but some good suggestions above. Possibly just putting a drier on your existing compressor.

If if you get a better sander you might be able to get rid of the air sanders and go to the Festo or Mirka type. That will take a load off the system.

My 3 head sander is nice but way over kill for what we do. We bought that before we went to the Tersa head jointer, planer, S4S machine and tightened up our joinery. We could get by nicely with a light duty 2 head now.

[Patrick Walsh]

Can anyone tell me what they think about this compressor and air dryer?

The boss gave me the green light to tend to the air dryer problem.

If not this unit can someone suggest the units we should be looking at.

Pretty sure we have a 5hp two stage Quincy?

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/tl...428829223.html