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Thread: Widebelt help ASAP..

  1. #1

    Widebelt help ASAP..

    I work for a small four man custom cabinet shop and out widebelt is on its last leg.

    It’s a 80’s era AEM 36” single head unit.

    I know nothing about these machines nor does my boss for the most part.

    The considerations for replacement are as follows.

    2001 Kundig 43” dual head. In what looks like excellent shape out of a small closing 2-3 man shop. $12000

    A new unused private sale 2016 Timesaver dual head 43” 1300 series unit $19000

    Or a brand new SCMI Entry level 36” single head unit. $17000

    I have my thoughts on what is a good and bad decision. I would be interested to what others think with regard to high end used and well cared for and how you can tell or not. Vrs new and lesser machine in hopes of less potential problems.

    All three machines have there appeal. Clearly the Kundig is well a Kundig and dual head 43” and ideal in many ways. It’s a upgrade from what we have in capacity and the dual head should speed up production a bit.

    The Timesaver seems like a deal and it’s new, we get added capacity dual head and hopefully no problems as it’s never been used.

    The Scmi seems like a safe bet as we get by with a single head 36” now and it’s new. Parts are easy to get yada yada.

    Thoughts...

  2. #2
    Go with the timesavers, but the 1300 series is the lighter duty model.

    Find out the hp on each head too. Anything less than 20hp on a 43" requires some patience.

  3. #3
    Even though it’s made in Taiwan..

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Even though it's made in Taiwan..
    They can build to any spec. I'd be more concerned with it being a lighter duty model.

    The euro machines that I've been exposed to haven't blown me away. Some trick features and a really horrible conveyor that they all run.

    I've got an Apex 2300, it's a Timesaver with different paint and a few options I feel are useless removed. The auto set for height being the main thing. Apex is Minnesota based, as is Timesavers, oddly enough the guys who own Apex used to work at Timesavers...
    I'm happy with the build quality and I'm not a fan of junk tools. Timesavers is apt as easy as you can get for parts availability, my last sander was from them.

    Mine was $35k new three years ago. The same model from Timesavers was almost $10k more. Mine's a 43" dual head, 25hp on the first, 20hp on the second combo head.

  5. #5
    Hmm,

    So confusing. It’s not my decision to make but I am trying to help my boss sort through the variables as we both know as much as each other “nothing”...

    He is buisness minded and me not so much. I have a fairly nice shop at home and I’m more a spare no expense kinda guy. This is why I work for someone as my mentality and logic wouldcsink any buisness.

    I have no tolerance for cheap machinery. I just can’t stand plastic junk or when you look at a machine and it is clearly a toy made for hobby vrs production. Anything you have to spend more time jury rigging than using and I just dint have the patients. Time is $$ imop.

    If indeed the Timesavers is a quality machine it would also het my vote as it’s not used “very important” at least in my book and the added capacity and head is a huge bonus.

    On the other hands the new SCMI seems like the safe bet. It won’t be junk nor will it be built like a tank.

    The Kundig has my interest as I know the build quality will be superior, the outfeed table is attractive and the price is the least. If it’s a good machine and paned out to be reliable I would prefer it to the other two options.

    This is about not gambling though as more than anything I want to see my boss not have a widebelt problem again fir a very very long time. He really cant afford it tbh...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
    Posts
    996
    If there is one widebelt sander I wouldn't buy again, it is my SCMI. Had it since '97, and there have been many times I have wanted to push it out the door and off my loading dock onto the ground 5' below!
    My understanding of the timesavers units, is that they are not now the machine they once were. If it were me and my business, I would look very hard at the Kundig, and put at least 6-8k in my pocket.
    Remember, in a multi person shop, it will be "USED" at the end of the first week.
    If it performs properly, you are ahead.

  7. #7
    I've seen the finish on a board come out of a Kundig.
    Unbelievable

  8. #8
    How many hours do all of them have? (Other than the Timesavers, which is likely less than one hour.)

    I don't know what the number of hours would be a walk away scenario regardless of maintenance schedule. 10,000 seems like a lot, but in an industrial application that would be less than six years old. As a rule, good air compressors are basically done at 20k hours, even when well maintained.

    The thing about the Kundig that would scare me is that it's almost 20 years old, and while not exactly complicated, there is a very large amount of components both mechanical and electrical in a widebelt.

    Here's a horrible picture of the inside of the electrical cabinet on mine. This was the day I brought it home and the electrician was looking something up


  9. #9
    I’m still edging the boss to go new....

    We will see, I don’t really have a horse in this race so.

    On the other hand as suggested I hate to see him replace one used machine with another only to end up in the same boat in any short amount of time.

    To me it would not be a risk I’d be willing to take.

    Kundig is off the list and Timesaver from what I can tell.

    New Scmi unit I think may be the choice although our local distributor just took in a used Scmi unit when a local shop upgraded to a larger unit with more heads. This really has the bosses attention.

    I’m trying hard to steer him back towards new. Who knows maybe I’m wrong. I know if I end up directing him to buy used and he has a problem I’m sure gonna feel terrible. Same goes if I push him to purchase something he does not need.

    Anywho thanks for the help from those whom participated.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    SCMI used to have at least four levels of models. Many companies have several and there is quite a difference between them for commercial users. Some high end used will have hour meters and a higher end machine with a couple thousand hours may be a better option for the money but it will require patience and luck. Dave

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,933
    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    If there is one widebelt sander I wouldn't buy again, it is my SCMI.
    What are the issues with yours? My 1999 has been solid. Not good for doing big jobs like flattening slabs, but for cabinet doors it is great.
    JR

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
    Posts
    996
    Tracking issues, and it just stopping mid panel on the last pass. Sometimes it won't start.
    All of this costs me a LOT of time- we won't talk of the frustration.
    We do not use it enough to justify another, or a higher end machine- yet.
    Instead I have invested in better sliders and shapers.
    I know they probably sell more than anyone, but I do not see why.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    Peter, it sounds like some faulty parts. Camozzi cylinders that stick can cause tracking issues and something electrical when the machine stops. Most of the widebelts of similar price point are made the same. That should not happen and doesn't on either on my Sandya machines. Dave

  14. #14
    The increased productivity of a wider two head machine would far outweigh the benefits of a new machine's warranty if the older one is in good shape. Why don't you hire a qualified technician to assess the used machines? Can you test them under power? I would be leaning toward the Timesavers if it is as lightly used as advertised.

  15. #15

    Sam Blasco or eric Loza

    Anyone have Sam blasco or eric Lozas phone number?

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