Made In USA Bar Clamp

[Steve Demuth]

I do think though that likely in at least my lifetime there are going to be many many products that due to scale, margin or whatever that will still be manufactured old old school so to speak.

I doubt the "many, many" part. It's already the case that for parts made in lots greater than a few thousand, "no-hands" automation is cost effective anywhere workers are paid a living wage. Assembly economics lags that, and has been where the low-cost of Asian labor still wins big. But that won't last long. You mention Google and Boston Dynamics, but China's R & D is in a mad rush to fully roboticize their industries.

How small or specialized an "operation" needs to be to be immune is an interesting question, but think about this - the most demanding (of thought, flexibility and adjustability), dexterous, and variable task most assembly workers in this country do each day is get themselves reliably and on time from their home to the factory - and we are within a few years or a decade of being able to custom automate that for ever individual.

The times, they are a changin'.

[cody michael]

If I was looking at 2 products, one is made in USA and 1 is not. If the price is even close maybe 10-20% I buy the made in America. Almost everyone I know is the same way, not necessarily for the quality but to keep jobs in America.

Most my clamps are from harbor freight, there aluminum clamps are actually pretty nice and I can afford the 10-15$ for them, I can;t afford the $50+ some of the nicer clamps charge, they both hold wood together. The only time I have had a bad joint is because I have not prepared the wood properly. I don't think any hand clamp could have force it shut.

This is what you need to compete against. Bar clamp, for 15$ you can always use a 20% off coupon and get a free tape measure etc while there.

https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-...amp-60540.html

They also have F-style clamps but I never used them.

https://www.harborfreight.com/60-in-...amp-60673.html

If you can make a made in America clamp that is as good or better quality for under 20$ I would buy a few, if they are 50+ I'll need to stick with my chinese ones and buy other Made in America when possible.

[Peter Kelly]

The next time you are driving your Prius home from Harbor Freight consider this:

http://viewzone.com/sixteenships.html

Excellent point. The pollution from the "residual" fuel that most container ships burn is pretty horrific ("residual" is just a hair away from asphalt). 1 large container ship = approximately 50 million cars worth of CO2 & sulphur. https://www.wired.com/story/containe...eds-to-change/

Those "cheap" foreign clamps at Harbor Fright will be terribly expensive for future generations...

[Mark Bolton]

Excellent point. The pollution from the "residual" fuel that most container ships burn is pretty horrific ("residual" is just a hair away from asphalt). 1 large container ship = approximately 50 million cars worth of CO2 & sulphur. https://www.wired.com/story/containe...eds-to-change/

Those "cheap" foreign clamps at Harbor Fright will be terribly expensive for future generations...

The masses have made it clear that they dont care about the implications of cheap goods. Hence their prevalence.

[Mike Henderson]

I wonder what fuel navy ships (non-atomic) use. Anyone know? Is it bunker fuel, also?

Mike

[Peter Kelly]

http://greenfleet.dodlive.mil/energy/great-green-fleet

I'd imagine they don't use residuals either.

[Adam Herman]

the thing you are missing here, is that a large container ship is actually quite efficient when you look at a per ton mile basis. much better than trucks.

to compare you have to get the same units on your numbers.

[Peter Christensen]

.....and the truckers drown when they open the window to throw out their jug of pee!

[Peter Kelly]

There aren't any land vehicles that use No. 6 / Bunker C for fuel. When you also factor in (common) oil spills, bilge, raw sewage discharge, solid waste in the ocean, nitrogen oxide, sulphur oxides, CO2 into the atmosphere etc, any environmental efficiencies of ocean freight is far negated by all the other factors. Ocean shipping emissions account 17% of global CO2 annually. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)569964_EN.pdf

[Pat Barry]

If I was looking at 2 products, one is made in USA and 1 is not. If the price is even close maybe 10-20% I buy the made in America. Almost everyone I know is the same way, not necessarily for the quality but to keep jobs in America.

Most my clamps are from harbor freight, there aluminum clamps are actually pretty nice and I can afford the 10-15$ for them, I can;t afford the $50+ some of the nicer clamps charge, they both hold wood together. The only time I have had a bad joint is because I have not prepared the wood properly. I don't think any hand clamp could have force it shut.

This is what you need to compete against. Bar clamp, for 15$ you can always use a 20% off coupon and get a free tape measure etc while there.

https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-...amp-60540.html

They also have F-style clamps but I never used them.

https://www.harborfreight.com/60-in-...amp-60673.html

If you can make a made in America clamp that is as good or better quality for under 20$ I would buy a few, if they are 50+ I'll need to stick with my chinese ones and buy other Made in America when possible.

So really, what you are saying is that you could care less about buying American products as long as you can buy a POS from Harbor Freight. Right?

[Cary Falk]

I will buy something 2x the cost of a competitor regardless of origin if I feel it offers something more and I like it. For example, I bought some Irwin parallel clamps when HD was clearing them out. Using them aggravates me to death. I wouldn't buy them for half the price if they were made in the USA. I sold them all. I love the Jet parallel clamps. They are really expensive. I didn't check if they are made in the USA but would guess not. They will be the only parallel clamps I will buy in the future.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Hello,
I have been a long time lurker of this forum but just recently became a member. I am looking into manufacturing bar clamps made completely here in the states. I think we have all had our fair share of the flexing chinese made ones. Im looking to make a 4 inch throut depth 2 foot and 3 foot model (longer if needed). The only issue is there is no competing with the chinese prices. Most likely why most USA clamp companies are no longer in business. Would you have/do you think there would be interest from people in a USA made clamp? If so, what price range would be willing to pay for one.
Much Appreciated!
Colton
PS Moderators, If this is in the wrong Sub-Forum please move it.

Who would guess that such a simple question about the price of a bar clamp would devolve into 50-odd opposing rants on oil 'residuals' and the merits of HF tools...?

It seems clear that a wide range of price points can be supported for any given tool... With a 10sec search and scan, I see a driver-drill is available for anywhere from $19.99 (Milwaukee) to $630 (Festool, of course). If you can figure out why Festool's perceived value is 30X the low end of the market and apply that to a clamp - then you have a winner.

As for me, I have some disposable income and I could probably justify paying 2-3X the 'low-end' clamp's cost - - if this high-end clamp successfully addressed the issues I know of: high clamp force, low deflection, parallel jaws, ease/speed of adjustment, interchangeable components, good durability, ease of cleaning glue drips (and/or no detriment to the clamp action if glue does accumulate). ...These are perhaps the tangible qualities of a clamp?

What about intangibles that might improve the perceived value to 4X, 5X, or more?? Can you quickly and easily join 2 or more short clamps and make longer ones? Or, do I have to enhance your margins by buying longer bars - - AND clamp mechanisms. What other features that I haven't thought of make a good high-quality clamp - that I'd pay for?

And I just noticed I didn't consider Festool's or your clamp's country of origin as a feature. (Everybody is entitled to a living wage if they can compete globally.)

[Mark Bolton]

the thing you are missing here, is that a large container ship is actually quite efficient when you look at a per ton mile basis. much better than trucks.

to compare you have to get the same units on your numbers.

I dont think anyone would argue that a super freighter isnt the most cost effective way to get massive amounts of material across the ocean. The issue is, I will almost guarantee you that if you dont fudge the math, and the consumer or the corporation had to pay ALL the actual costs to move that material to Asia and then back to the US to the consumer, it would be far more cost effective to produce it here. But the issue, as with everything, is the math is completely fudged and bogus. The true costs are not calculated into the equation.

Its no different than a crusie ship. Some day, globally, cruise ships will be assessed a fee for dumping ALL their waste at sea which is contributing massively to waste islands formed in natural gyres in the ocean. The cost of that waste gyre is not reflected in your ticket price. If it were, the industry would be much much different (cost wise).

Fuzzy math is what's got us into this problem to begin with.

[Colton Miller]

I really appreciate all of the responses even if it has became a slight debate about fuel use haha. Through my design process I utilized FEA software to get a baseline of needed sizes/dimensions. That being said, looking at some of the cheap clamps (Irwin, hf, etc..) I find it pretty unrealistic that they would hold up to the clamping power they claim to have. Right now the aluminum clamp design will have a rated capacity of 1000 lbs (max of 1500lbs). The steel clamp wil have a rated capacity of 1500 lbs (max of 2000lbs+ if you can apply the torque). In all honesty, with good cuts and square wood most likely someone will not need to utilize that sort of clamping force. So there is a fine line with sizing. Right now the price point for both clamps looks to be around $60 for a 3 foot clamp, $55 for a 2 foot and $50 for a 1 foot. Assuming the 1 foot will be the most popular. The cost decreases as the total # of clamps produced increase (economics) so the price could decrease if there is a demand. I have sourced all of my parts here in the states. So as I sit right now, I will produce 5 or so, test them for an extended period of time and continue on from there. I understand that competing against $5 clamp from HF is not doable so I wont be able to attract that market. It will be directed towards those who are looking for something to last a lifetime like some of the designs from the 1930-on have done. I am not following that design and/or designing to those extremes but you get the idea. I have worked towards making the design more ergonomically friendly in the regards of handling and the handle being more than a straight cut piece of wood. The current weights are:
1 foot Aluminum: 1.5lbs
2 foot Aluminum: 2 lbs
3 foot Aluminum: 2.5lbs
1 foot Steel: 3 lbs
2 foot Steel: 5 lbs
3 foot Steel: 7lbs
Those may change through any design changes
Thank you all for the great discussion and keep it coming!

[Mark Bolton]

Colton,
Unfortunately I think your price point puts you out of the main stream and into the UBER clamp user. Your scaling issue could effect your price point dramatically. For reference.. Before Pony/Adjustable clamp went south, we were paying about $50 for a 60" steel I bar clamp. We were paying $14 for a 3/4" pipe clamp set (no pipe). These were domestic prices. I realize your not selling Ibars and your not selling pipe clamps, but this is (was) the level your competing against.

Now Wetzlers are selling for $50 a pop on ebay for good stock. Thats likely a market you may be able to build upon at the price point. Im not sure your going to swing many consumer clamp customers at that price point.