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Thread: Lathe Dust/Chip collection

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Lathe Dust/Chip collection

    My lathe setup is about 20 feet from my DC. I have a HF DC unit with a thien baffle system that has served me extremely well for all of my power tools, ie., TS, jointer, planer,BS, etc. I have been using 4" PVC as the main line with the drops approximately 6 feet or so at best to each machine. There are never more than one machine on at a time.
    I have several questions.
    First, will a 20' run be too far for this system? (This would be a straight line with no curves, but would be 4" flex hose).
    Second, what type of setup do most use as far as fine dust is concerned? Personally, I can't see a DC unit doing much good with the chips flying off a lathe. Seems to me it would have to have a complete shroud surrounding it to be effective. That being said, sweeping up with a broom and or shop vac would seem more realistic.
    I understand the importance of dust extraction for fine dust, especially when sanding, and I am sure the DC would handle that.
    Just wondering before investing in more pipe or hose for this project.
    Looking forward to some feedback.
    Thanks, Steve.

  2. #2
    You didn't say what size HF DC you have (1hp, 1.5, 2, etc), but the 4" pipe is going to move less air than 5", and the use of long runs of flex will hinder it as well. Before my recent piping upgrade I used the same, since it was readily available and I didn't know any better, since I could feel it was pulling air in at the pipe's end.
    Most of my turning was smaller stuff, like goblets, boxes, steins and so on, and I only had the DC on while sanding (not a great plan). I had the PVC connected to the side of the lathe near the headstock, and stuck an uncemented 90 degree elbow on the end (so it could swivel), with another bit of pipe in that extending towards the Nova chuck that held the work. It was sufficient to pull in the visible dust while I worked, but likely missed some. I didn't bother with trying to catch the shavings since I generally had a knee deep pile at the end of the day, and I'd be emptying the can more than not.

    The new setup will have a shroud at the rear of the lathe, roughly 12" wide, and 6" tall. I plan on having magnets on it to be able to move it to the front for sanding. This should attract enough of the fines to help, while not pulling in all the shavings themselves. I think.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Eure View Post
    My lathe setup is about 20 feet from my DC. I have a HF DC unit with a thien baffle system that has served me extremely well for all of my power tools, ie., TS, jointer, planer,BS, etc. I have been using 4" PVC as the main line with the drops approximately 6 feet or so at best to each machine. There are never more than one machine on at a time.
    I have several questions.
    First, will a 20' run be too far for this system? (This would be a straight line with no curves, but would be 4" flex hose).
    Second, what type of setup do most use as far as fine dust is concerned? Personally, I can't see a DC unit doing much good with the chips flying off a lathe. Seems to me it would have to have a complete shroud surrounding it to be effective. That being said, sweeping up with a broom and or shop vac would seem more realistic.
    I understand the importance of dust extraction for fine dust, especially when sanding, and I am sure the DC would handle that.
    Just wondering before investing in more pipe or hose for this project.
    Looking forward to some feedback.
    Thanks, Steve.
    Steve,

    My lathe and bandsaw are about 40' from my dust collector. The pickup at the bandsaw is nearly perfect - I get nothing accumulated in the cabinet, wet or dry wood.

    The pickup at the lathe is different, of course, but still very useful. With a nozzle behind the lathe you won't pick up chips that fly away from the nozzle, but that is not a health issue. I keep a tub under the lathe which catches a lot of the chips, use a broom, and have a shop vac hose connected to the DC to clean up a little more on the rare occasions that I care. This is the tub, from Walmart:
    lathe_PM_tub.jpg

    The fine dust at the lathe is a different issue, the one that will destroy your health in the long run. A nozzle will pick up an amazing amount of fine dust from BOTH cutting and sanding. I've used a bright light while sanding a spindle and watched the dust travel at least 18" behind the spindle and into the nozzle. Note also that research has shown that even cutting wood with a hand plane produces small amounts of nearly invisible but damaging dust. With a bright light and a dark background at the lathe I can see a huge amount of fine dust in the air even when I turn something tiny like a finger top. (Worse for some woods than others, of course.)

    This is what I use for pickup:
    lathe_dust_pickup.jpg
    Note that I still wear a respirator when sanding. Also, I don't power sand with a rotating pad on a drill - I primarily hand sand and sometimes use a gentle random orbital sander with 1" or 2" disks.

    How effective your DC is would depend on the size and specs. I know nothing about HF dust collectors and thien baffles. I do know the more power you have and the more air you move the better.

    This is what I installed: a 5hp Clearvue cyclone with 6" PVC ducts above the ceiling to various drops in the shop. The picture above shows the 6" drop at the lathe and the splitter box with blast gates I use for either the lathe or the shop vac hose as needed. This system moves a lot of air - don't let your cat get too close! If my DC was on the wimpy side I'd wear the respirator all the time at the lathe and in the shop afterwards and run an air cleaner to filter out the dust while I was out of the shop for a few hours. And instead of investing in more pipe and hose I would start saving for a powerful cyclone. (That is, again, if my DC was on the wimpy side!)

    JKJ

  4. #4
    As already said, the flex pipe, because of all the ridges will really reduce air flow. For 5 or even 10 feet, not much of a problem. For 20 feet it becomes a problem. Shaving collection is better done with a big scoop shovel and plastic leaf bag, rather than your hose. Especially if you are a bowl turner, you can fill up the bag really quickly, and in the flex pipe, they can clog up. Size matters, and so does the filter on your DC. The pleated paper filters are far better than the cloth bags because they generally are finer (0.5 micron compared to 5 micron), and they offer several times the surface area to vent through so you get much better flow. You can adapt one to your system. I have a sanding hood that I use when sanding bowls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZsVc7qVx7A&t=9s) which encloses the bowl to the point where it gets all the dust rather than just some of it, which means I don't need to wear a dust mask when sanding. I do wear one when shoveling up the shavings though.

    robo hippy

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    TX, NM or on the road
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    845
    They are DUST collectors, not chip collectors for a reason.

  6. #6
    Chips???? I make shavings, big long curly ones! [J/K yes I make chips as well]
    I never use my DC for shavings, tried but more trouble than it's worth. I do use it when I sand on the lathe though.
    I use a snow shovel and wheelbarrow to remove the shavings "chips" after they get about knee deep in the floor.

  7. #7
    A curtain around the lathe and a shovel for the chips.

    For dust, a 12-amp shop vac with a 2.5" hose put very close to the point of sanding [often you can shove it between the ways] is very effective because of the high velocity of the air, maybe moreso than a dust collector.

    The health danger of super fine wood dust is, in my opinion, greatly exaggerated by woodworkers online. There seems to be little if any actual research demonstrating that it's particularly dangerous. Wood dust ain't asbestos. But better safe than sorry -- wear a respirator while sanding.

    ETA: According to Pentz and company, the harbor freight dust collector is too wimpy to collect fine dust to his standards. I think you'd be better off with the shop vac, which is why I mentioned it.
    Last edited by Bob Bouis; 12-15-2017 at 12:58 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Bouis View Post
    ...The health danger of super fine wood dust is, in my opinion, greatly exaggerated by woodworkers online. ...
    I agree that research needs to be done. All I have is two data points in the persons of two local woodturners who had to quit working with wood because of serious lung problems. One had his shop emptied and professionally cleaned and still couldn't go in there without breathing issues - he had a new house built and sold that one. He was an incredible turner up to that point. The last time I visited he had just acquired a metal lathe.

    I am sure that some people are far more susceptible to developing sensitivity to wood and to lung problems. I've personally had asthma since I was a kid and decided to take even the possibility of danger seriously.

    JKJ

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Steve,

    My lathe and bandsaw are about 40' from my dust collector. The pickup at the bandsaw is nearly perfect - I get nothing accumulated in the cabinet, wet or dry wood.

    The pickup at the lathe is different, of course, but still very useful. With a nozzle behind the lathe you won't pick up chips that fly away from the nozzle, but that is not a health issue. I keep a tub under the lathe which catches a lot of the chips, use a broom, and have a shop vac hose connected to the DC to clean up a little more on the rare occasions that I care. This is the tub, from Walmart:
    lathe_PM_tub.jpg

    The fine dust at the lathe is a different issue, the one that will destroy your health in the long run. A nozzle will pick up an amazing amount of fine dust from BOTH cutting and sanding. I've used a bright light while sanding a spindle and watched the dust travel at least 18" behind the spindle and into the nozzle. Note also that research has shown that even cutting wood with a hand plane produces small amounts of nearly invisible but damaging dust. With a bright light and a dark background at the lathe I can see a huge amount of fine dust in the air even when I turn something tiny like a finger top. (Worse for some woods than others, of course.)

    This is what I use for pickup:
    lathe_dust_pickup.jpg
    Note that I still wear a respirator when sanding. Also, I don't power sand with a rotating pad on a drill - I primarily hand sand and sometimes use a gentle random orbital sander with 1" or 2" disks.

    How effective your DC is would depend on the size and specs. I know nothing about HF dust collectors and thien baffles. I do know the more power you have and the more air you move the better.

    This is what I installed: a 5hp Clearvue cyclone with 6" PVC ducts above the ceiling to various drops in the shop. The picture above shows the 6" drop at the lathe and the splitter box with blast gates I use for either the lathe or the shop vac hose as needed. This system moves a lot of air - don't let your cat get too close! If my DC was on the wimpy side I'd wear the respirator all the time at the lathe and in the shop afterwards and run an air cleaner to filter out the dust while I was out of the shop for a few hours. And instead of investing in more pipe and hose I would start saving for a powerful cyclone. (That is, again, if my DC was on the wimpy side!)

    JKJ
    I agree completely with John K Jordan. You can and should catch the dust with either a DC or a shop vac, but you won't have much success with catching shavings.

    If you are hoping to collect the shavings with a larger DC I would suggest not upgrading for that reason. However, a larger DC with a better filter is always nice to have just for cleaner air in the shop.
    Bill

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I agree that research needs to be done. All I have is two data points in the persons of two local woodturners who had to quit working with wood because of serious lung problems. One had his shop emptied and professionally cleaned and still couldn't go in there without breathing issues - he had a new house built and sold that one. He was an incredible turner up to that point. The last time I visited he had just acquired a metal lathe.

    I am sure that some people are far more susceptible to developing sensitivity to wood and to lung problems. I've personally had asthma since I was a kid and decided to take even the possibility of danger seriously.

    JKJ
    There's definitely lots of evidence that wood dust can lead to sensitization and asthma-type conditions. What's lacking as far as I know is evidence that it's the tiny, sub-five-micron particles that are responsible for it. There also seems to be little if any evidence that those tiny particles cause permanent injury to lungs (i.e., progressive loss of capacity, fibrosis, cancer, etc, like asbestos does), yet people online seem convinced that that's the case.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Elmodel, Ga.
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    798
    Thanks for the replies. As far as small dust particles are concerned, that's not an issue of the filter. I don't vent through a filter that goes back into the shop. My setup vents outside. I live in the country on a farm and my nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away. Noise and dust isn't an issue.
    I realize having larger pipe is the best option for dust, and flex pipe constricts on a long run, but I might give it a try anyways to see if it controls just the dust. If it doesn't, well back to the drawing board.
    As far as breathing in fine dust, I always wear a respirator when sanding and some while cutting.
    Thanks again for the input.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
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    3,078
    Just my opinion....

    HF dust collector
    Thien Baffle
    20 feet of flex hose

    Extremely marginal to get and move dust. I doubt with that set up you are pulling any more than 400 cfm and likely less. To answer the question, you need to measure the air flow.

    As for health effects of dust. I know that if I do not use my dust collector during sanding operations, I end up with it up my nose and in my lungs and start coughing. As we get older, it is more difficult to handle dust in the air.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Toronto, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Eure View Post
    I realize having larger pipe is the best option for dust, and flex pipe constricts on a long run, but I might give it a try anyways to see if it controls just the dust. If it doesn't, well back to the drawing board.
    As far as breathing in fine dust, I always wear a respirator when sanding and some while cutting.
    Thanks again for the input.
    A larger, smooth pipe will help a lot. Metal pipes dont build static, like plastic. 4-5" are cheap and easily available from Home Depot.

    Any dust that you do not suck in, will linger around the shop.
    So wearing a respirator/mask while sanding only solves part of the issue.

    If you do go around afterwards and vacuum well, then that problem is mitigated.

    Venting to the outside is a great idea, I do that as well, when weather permits.
    The other option is to sand outside - on a windy day....

    Sanding.jpg

  14. #14
    A shop vac of any type will have higher velocity, but less volume/cubic feet per minute/static pressure than a dust collector. Volume is probably the most important part of dust collection. To get more of the dust, you need more of a sanding hood. So, just the hose = barely okay job. Hose with a vent/big gulp type cup = better. Enclosed hood = best.

    robo hippy

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    I have already met with health issues due to poor dust removal, so I've taken a no compromise position on the subject. Having no dust removal system in place I refuse to do any woodworking in my garage. The only time I use my lathe is when it is warm enough outside to move it to the overhead door and place fans behind me
    I bought a HF dust collector but found it to be under powered so I don't use it. Even venting it outside isn't good enough, in my opinion.
    The fact that you are venting outside is great, but ,in my opinion ( and everyone has their own) the HF is underpowered for your setup. If you can afford it I would go bigger and,of course, the ribs in the duct you are using makes it even less effective.
    When I finally do get my workshop ( a bad subject) I plan to buy a Cyclone.
    Without removing as much of the fine dust as posible it remains behind to be kicked up again and again every time anything or anyone is moving around in the shop where you work. In my case, until I get a separate building to work in, and having an attached garage, that means every time the door to the house is opened fine dust particles enter the home. What had already entered my home is being sent airborn every time someone walks into a room. Every time I pull a car in or out if the garage, fine dust is stirred up into the air again. It is there just waiting to be sent aloft again and again for another chance to get into the lungs of me and my family.
    I paid over $1600 for my G0766 and ,in my opinion, paying that much for a dust collection system that does the job right should not be a painful experience.

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