Contributor
IIRC- the Stanley handle has a different shape than the Veritas handles. I wonder how much that affects this for you?Originally Posted by James Pallas
You sound satisfied with your decision, but you could make replacement handles for your Stanley's or get Veritas bevel-down planes to experiment more. (You might be able to buy Veritas handles to retro fit your Stanley planes, I don't recall if LV's handle in the Stanley shape is compatible or just copies the shape.)
Member
Makes perfect sense to me, as I have a similar preference (though it doesn't cause me pain as it apparently does for you). Have you tried the Veritas Custom BD planes with the standard/upright tote?
The traditional Stanely tote geometry (which is shared by L-N) has quite a bit of forward lean, that encourages a "high elbow" and downward-directed effort as you describe. Basically all LV BD planes have or can be configured with a more vertical tote, that favors a lower forearm position. I honestly can't tell much difference in that respect between my LV BD and BU planes (and both feel very different from my Stanley and L-N planes).
If you look at the forces and mechanics involved, what matters is the geometry of the tote and its position relative to the cutting edge. BU vs BD is at most a very secondary factor, because turning the blade upside down doesn't move the center of resistance at all. In either case it's at the cutting edge, in the plane of the sole.
The one thing you probably don't want to try is a woodie. Because those have higher totes they must have a fair bit of forward lean to keep the user's effort directed towards the cutting edge (a basic requirement for stability at start/end of cut).
One other thought, though I'm certain you've already figured this out: Mind the wear bevel. BU planes gradually lose clearance as a wear bevel develops on the back of the blade, and require more and more downforce to engage in the cut as that happens. For somebody like you that would be bad news indeed.
Member
On a random (and not serious aside) I bet you'd be very good with the Veritas Bevel Up Jack Rabbet.
It has just enough flex through the midsection that you can make the iron dive into the cut a little bit if you push downward on the tote too aggressively. If you want to take a thin shaving with it then in my experience you have to focus on keeping the center of pressure as low on the tote as possible. Of course the purpose of a jack rabbet is not to take thin shavings in the first place, so it's rather irrelevant :-).
Contributor
Thanks David. Like I said previously, I'm done experimenting now. I'm pleased with the performance of the BU planes and just as happy with the finish I am getting. The Stanley's will be going to a good home and be used and cared for.
Jim
Contributor
Patrick, I have a BU Jack rabbet. Great plane for me. Use it as a jack or short jointer on edges sometimes. Pretty agile on rabbets for its size and weight.
Jim
Contributor
My ONLY BU planes are block planes. Haven't really seen or felt a need to change to BU Bench planes......Some of the Veritas handles remind me too much of late model Handyman plane handles.....
Family photo 021.jpg
Have no trouble holding the Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls, and a few other Vintage handles. To change out a stable of planes, just on the "feel" of the handle? NOT.
I disliked liked a Woodriver #4 V3 so much, I went and sold it off on that auction site.....good riddance.
Had a Tablesaw for a few years.....finally decided to sell it off, as well. Wasn't even using it, why keep it.....
Last edited by steven c newman; 12-18-2017 at 1:10 AM.
Contributor
If all one were making were boxes, then all the tools not necessary for boxes would be superfluous and go unused. Now if one was making boxes and cabinet carcases, and these were all rectangular, then anything that shaped a curve (such as a spokeshave), would be superfluous and unused. What if one decided to build curved objects for a while? Would that make all the bench planes superfluous?
I have all sizes of shoulder planes. I have two that are 1-1/4" wide (a Veritas and a Norris). Neither get much, if any, use. Actually, I prefer the small 1/2" Veritas the most. Does that mean the large shoulder planes should not be considered by others? Many believe that these are the only size to get. I hardly, if ever, use a LN rabbet block plane. But it is an excellent tool ... for somebody. Similarly, my LA Jack gets little used now. A dedicated shooting plane has taken one of its roles, but then I will pull it out to clean up dovetails .. no, actually, I prefer my Veritas #7 for that (low bed and chipbreaker - best of all worlds).
I am not meaning to sound cynical when I write this (just in case it comes across that way). There are some tools that hardly get used, but I am so pleased I have them .. for when they are needed. Even the LA Jack. It is always going to be a case of "one man's meat ...".
It may be more interesting and useful to state which 10 tools you would take with you to the desert island. That is, what are the fewest number of tools could do the most tasks? If you decide to list them, you also need to explain how they can multi-task. For example, a wide shoulder plane can be used on shoulders, rebates, mouldings, cheeks, and end grain. Possibly a few more. A #5 (with a couple of blades) could be a jointer, smoother, shooter, and scrub. For furniture quality work, how many chisels do you need?
Regards from Perth
Derek
Member
I don't know about that Derek. Reading about the tools that everyone found least useful is interesting too. Some couldn't get anything done until they went with bevel up planes and dumped the bevel down planes. Some went the opposite way. At least everyone seems to find something that works for them.
The tool I made fun of in a previous post, a thumb plane I bought for 25 cents at a garage sale I use as a paper weight was used to put a chamfer on pressure treated boards this last summer. 140 feet of boards, 280 feet of chamfering. It was the handiest tool for the job. Before that it was the never used tool.
For Father's Day I received from my daughter:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanley-1...-Tool/39322162
Sometimes when you open a present you just want to shake your head. Destined to be never used... I needed to move some electrical wire. The pliers pulled the staples out and the hammer reseated them. It's been used more than I would have ever thought.
Then the least used tool was a chisel plane. Well, it was my least used tool until I gave it to someone that promised it a good home. I haven't used my dividers much but Stanley Covington seems determined to fix that problem.
-Tom
[OP]
Contributor
It is for the reason of "body mechanics" one of my suggestions, when people ask which tool to get, is for them to try them out in person.The problem I have is the body mechanics. I can get really low on the tote of a BU plane
There are many choices when one wants a particular quality tool. It is, imo, important to find tools that are comfortable in one's hands and when used with their particular style.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
This #112 scraper plane. I searched high and low for one. I found this one without a blade, and installed a new Hock version. I honed it and turned a burr. I tested it and set it on the shelf.....where it has remained for the better part of 8 years. When I need a scraper I always reach for on of my #80s.
Sharp solves all manner of problems.
Contributor
Man, I thought I was the only one who did the "just gotta have it - then never use it" routine. I realized after my last response that I also have a brand new LV Large Router Plane hanging on the wall that I haven't even sharpened, let alone used.
I feel like a real dope when I do crap like that.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
“If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”
Contributor
The LN #140 skew block plane and the LN #9 bronze miter plane. After a test run they have been sitting in the cabinet since 93-94.
Chet
Member
Side rabbet plane.
After that, power hand plane and belt sander.
[OP]
Contributor
Here are more unused tools:
More Unused Tools.jpg
Prominent in back is a Sargent Transitional Plane. This is a bit redundant to my metallic planes, so it sits colledting dust.
From the left is a combination square. There are a few of these around my shop and they seldom get used due to my preference for fixed try squares. The #59 doweling guide used to get used more often. Most of the time now my joinery doesn't use dowels. Occasionally one of the Yankee drills gets used if something is being done outside the shop and a pilot hole is desired. Most of the time an eggbeater or battery drill is used. One problem with the all metal versions, especially the one on the right is the bits are stored in the top. The nut that holds the top in position can strip out over time and then fails to hold the top closed.
Next is a #95 Butt Hinge Gauge. Its best use is if one has a lot of doors to hang using the same hinges. When doing only a couple of hinges it is quicker to use the hinges to lay out the mortises or a standard marking gauge.
Below the gauge is a style of try square that seemed useful when it was purchsed. In use it can be difficult to keep it from moving toward the 45º edge.
Continuing clockwise is a Stanley #60 double blade spoke shave. For some reason, possibly a design issue, the blades tend to slip from their setting in use.
Last is a pair of adjustable hold fasts. Before having a pair of regular holdfasts these saw a lot of use. Now these are not as easy to use as a solid hold fast.
Many years ago my favored transportation was VW micro buses and bugs. This little toy convertible was given to me by someone who knew my love of the VW. Now that all the kids are grown, it seems like it might be practical again. Though the VWs that were available cheap back in my younger days are now "collector" cars and do not come cheap.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Now are you telling us that mild-mannered, grandfatherly Jim Koepke was a hippy? Really?
If so, you've just GOTTA post a picture "from the era". (Bathurst did. So it's your turn Jim!)
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