Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 50

Thread: Data Line Buried w/Power

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,973
    Black Poly is pretty cheap, and nothing to snag during a pull. It comes in different sizes, and lengths up to 500', or at least that's the longest I remember seeing.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-in-x-1...0100/205903465

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    29
    I’m not sure what your current network topology looks like, but personally I’d go with fiber in conduit. Virtually unlimited bandwidth for future expansion and zero interference. I installed a few remote switches in the house and purchased 30meter pre terminated cables for $13 each at fiberstore dot com. SFP transceivers for each end might be 10-20 each. A switch with an SFP Uplink on each end is probably 100 or so. UBNT makes nice stuff at rock bottom prices.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Northern UT
    Posts
    762
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    Black Poly is pretty cheap, and nothing to snag during a pull. It comes in different sizes, and lengths up to 500', or at least that's the longest I remember seeing.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-in-x-1...0100/205903465
    I have used poly pipe for sprinkler systems four or five times, yet never thought about it for this project. That is a good idea and I already have enough 2" sitting around that I can use for the data line. Thanks for suggesting it Tom.
    I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love.... It seems to me that Montana is a great splash of grandeur....the mountains are the kind I would create if mountains were ever put on my agenda. Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans. Montana has a spell on me. It is grandeur and warmth. Of all the states it is my favorite and my love.

    John Steinbeck


  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Mazuronis View Post
    I’m not sure what your current network topology looks like, but personally I’d go with fiber in conduit. Virtually unlimited bandwidth for future expansion and zero interference. I installed a few remote switches in the house and purchased 30meter pre terminated cables for $13 each at fiberstore dot com. SFP transceivers for each end might be 10-20 each. A switch with an SFP Uplink on each end is probably 100 or so. UBNT makes nice stuff at rock bottom prices.
    It's hard to imagine needing more than gigabit to a shop, but you can run 10 gigabit over Ethernet cable if you had to. 10 gigabit is spec'ed for 100 meters so 65 feet should be pretty easy.

    If you did need really high speed between the shop and the house, it would be for something local. You're not going to get any Internet access even close to that speed.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    It's hard to imagine needing more than gigabit to a shop, but you can run 10 gigabit over Ethernet cable if you had to. 10 gigabit is spec'ed for 100 meters so 65 feet should be pretty easy.

    If you did need really high speed between the shop and the house, it would be for something local. You're not going to get any Internet access even close to that speed.

    Mike
    Even 100Mbit is a lot for a shop. I guess if you have a lot of ip video feeds you might need a gigabit connection. Typically, 10 gigabit would connect two buildings at a university, or a work campus. I'm rural and 10 mb to my service provider is a luxury. Even when I had great broadband, before I moved, I maxed out at 50 mb to the service provider.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    Mike, 10GB isn't practical for the "average-Joe" due to the cost of the gear. While you can get some very nice unmanaged 10/100/1000 (gigabit) Ethernet switches for $30-100, 10GB gear is in the "many thousands" range and typically limited to either data center type gear or 10/100/1000 managed switches with 10GB uplinks. Most 10GB is run over fiber, too, although it's certainly possible to run it on copper. Only very high end servers have 10gb interfaces, too.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Mike, 10GB isn't practical for the "average-Joe" due to the cost of the gear. While you can get some very nice unmanaged 10/100/1000 (gigabit) Ethernet switches for $30-100, 10GB gear is in the "many thousands" range and typically limited to either data center type gear or 10/100/1000 managed switches with 10GB uplinks. Most 10GB is run over fiber, too, although it's certainly possible to run it on copper. Only very high end servers have 10gb interfaces, too.
    You're right, 10G Ethernet is expensive, especially when you consider the switches. But note that I also said that it's hard to imagine needing more than gigabit for a shop. If someone got to the point where they needed more than gigabit, I guess they would be willing to bite the bullet cost wise.

    But it's hard to imagine needing more than gigabit for a shop.

    Mike

    [No matter what technology you use for the communications, the boxes on the end are going to be expensive because they are almost all network type boxes, and not consumer type boxes.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 12-24-2017 at 1:06 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    I use the unmanaged LinkSys and TP-Link 10/100/1000 switches in our home and they are "really inexpensive", even when there are PoE (Power over Ethernet) ports included.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    You're right, 10G Ethernet is expensive, especially when you consider the switches. But note that I also said that it's hard to imagine needing more than gigabit for a shop. If someone got to the point where they needed more than gigabit, I guess they would be willing to bite the bullet cost wise.

    But it's hard to imagine needing more than gigabit for a shop.

    Mike

    [No matter what technology you use for the communications, the boxes on the end are going to be expensive because they are almost all network type boxes, and not consumer type boxes.]
    I worked at a free standing medical facility that employed 50 people. We had "4D" imaging, a radiology reading room, numerous surveillance cameras, and extensive office functions all on unmanaged gigabit switches. Ironically, new owners came in and replaced all the Cat5e with Cat6, upgraded all the switches to managed 10Gb switches. The internet connection remained 50Mb and not a single station supported more than gigabit, and some legacy equipment remained 10/100. Total waste of money. Anyway, back to point, if you can run a 50 person, imaging intensive, medical complex with unique security issues on a gigabit backbone, I'm sure a hobbyist shop can eke on by.
    Yet, the fiber optic connection has tweaked my curiosity. Currently I have a 900MHz P to P wireless connection. My shop is 1000 - 1200 feet from my house and having dependable high speed intranet would allow me to add several HD IP security cameras at my shop and properties access point to cover some blind spots. I still don't think that fiber would be cost effective. One site's online calculator gave me a quote of $2000 for a pre-terminated cable but I'm guessing that trenching would add thousands and I'd have to cross a small stream. Anyone have any thoughts on how to transmit data 1200 ft though "the woods".

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    Steve, you're only option for that distance is fiber. You don't necessarily need to "trench" in the traditional sense. Flexible conduit can be installed with a "slitter" and that would allow you to use a less expensive, non-direct-burial pre-terminated 2-stand fiber which will run you in the neighborhood of about $540 based on the quick search I just did. So your cost would be for the flexible conduit and install of the same plus pulling the fiber. This is for multimode fiber which is rated to 1000 meters for GigE. (cost from http://www.lanshack.com/2-Strand-Cus...bly-P7070.aspx)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Milito View Post
    Yet, the fiber optic connection has tweaked my curiosity. Currently I have a 900MHz P to P wireless connection. My shop is 1000 - 1200 feet from my house and having dependable high speed intranet would allow me to add several HD IP security cameras at my shop and properties access point to cover some blind spots. I still don't think that fiber would be cost effective. One site's online calculator gave me a quote of $2000 for a pre-terminated cable but I'm guessing that trenching would add thousands and I'd have to cross a small stream. Anyone have any thoughts on how to transmit data 1200 ft though "the woods".
    Look for multimode fiber instead of single mode fiber - it should be cheaper and it will run 10 G for about 500 meters so I guess it would easily handle gigabit at 1,200 feet. Multimode is much easier to terminate than single mode. I'd buy outdoor multimode fiber and then I'd string it through the trees, high enough that someone wouldn't catch on it.

    Check on kits to terminate multimode fiber. I think they sell them at a reasonable price, or you can buy 500 meters with the ends terminated and just coil (big coil) the excess at the end.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 12-24-2017 at 8:21 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    10,304
    Jim, Mike -- With wire or fiber, don't you still have a problem crossing the OP's creek? What about wireless ethernet bridges? For example https://www.amazon.com/EZ-Bridge-Lit.../dp/B002K683V0 It seems to have the bandwidth and the range, and isn't expensive. There is the caveat about needing line of sight to get 3 mile range, but maybe for shorter range it can tolerate more forest, or maybe the forest is actually kinda sparse.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    Fiber is ultimately more reliable and has better performance than wireless...by a long-shot. Line of sight isn't negotiable for the type of gear you reference and yes, materials can affect signal. Best results would be with the antennas up very high, but that product is still only the older 802.1G and 802.1N standards and is on the 2.4 ghz unlicensed band which is subject to a variety of interference vectors. It would likely perform better at shorter distances...such as the building to building example they mention in the description. That said, it's certainly an option if the topology that he's faced with will support it.

    Crossing the creek should be doable with the flexible conduit I mentioned. I'd just support it well for the crossing before it reenters the ground. The flexible conduit is the same stuff that service providers use to "wire" up neighborhoods, whether for fiber or other types of connections. The OP could also run the fiber overhead if he's willing to invest in having poles put in...

    Any time you can avoid wireless...performance will be much better, more consistent, more reliable and more satisfying. In our home, any device that can accept an Ethernet connection is wired. The only exceptions we have are our phones and my younger daughter's SmartTV and Macbook Air as I haven't been able to route a connection to her room to-date...but I'm working on it. The wireless we do us is a LinkSys Velops mesh network. It's been the only thing that's actually worked consistently in our home which presents significant "materials" based challenges to wireless signals. Even with only 4200 sq feet, I need to use three units to get coverage everywhere. (I have a fourth in my shop which now has good quality network)
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 12-24-2017 at 9:05 PM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    Jim, Mike -- With wire or fiber, don't you still have a problem crossing the OP's creek? What about wireless ethernet bridges? For example https://www.amazon.com/EZ-Bridge-Lit.../dp/B002K683V0 It seems to have the bandwidth and the range, and isn't expensive. There is the caveat about needing line of sight to get 3 mile range, but maybe for shorter range it can tolerate more forest, or maybe the forest is actually kinda sparse.
    I'm not the OP and don't want to highjack the thread but some of the issues are the same; perhaps the scale is greater.
    I live in a rural mountainous area. No cable is available. We had ISDN for a while and I was getting kilobit data rates. We have line of sight to a wireless provider, so I switched. I now get 10Mbit or so data rates on a fairly routine basis. Sometimes more, sometimes a bit less. It's on the 2.4 GHz band. It works reasonably well even in the rain. I'm not so sure 5 GHz would work as well with heavy rain.
    We tried a 2.4Ghz bridge to my shop (1000 ft as the crow flies) but the trees are a complete block in summer. Therefore, we went with a 900MHz bridge. I'm not sure what my data rate is over the bridge, but I'm sure it's well south of 100Mbit, especially when leafed out. It's really not a big deal for web browsing, downloading documents/manuals, or watching an occasional youtube tutorial. The video feeds to the house are different. I have several security cameras and I'd like a more robust backbone to see what's going on down there, especially when the weather's bad.
    I'll need to look into the fiber option. The indoor / outdoor is far less expensive then the outdoor direct burial. I need to find out more about the cost of the flex conduit. Doesn't sound like a DIY project. I don't think stringing through the trees is practical and sometimes trees just fall down.

  15. #45
    For anyone considering fiber optic cable installations over long distances, please consider 6-core (or more) OM3 cable. Since the biggest expense might be the trench in the ground or the conduit between buildings, the additional cost of future-proofing the installation is reasonable. We never install a 2-core fiber for any runs greater than 50 meters. The minimum is 4-core for single applications and 12-core for multiple applications.

    Fiber cores can break during installation and having only two to work with means installing a new run when this happens. At that point, the labor usually exceeds the cost of the material.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •