Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 55

Thread: Musings on kitchen drawers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,408

    Musings on kitchen drawers

    TL;DR: Do the pros around here think clients and people in general still value dovetailed kitchen drawers?

    Long version:


    I’m going to be remodeling my parents’ kitchen. It’s a moderate sized cabinet job, maybe on the higher-end as far as details and hardware go. Prefinished ply carcasses, inset beaded face frames, applied drawer fronts, blum hardware, painted (thank god).


    I’m really torn about drawer material and drawer construction.


    On the one hand, plywood drawer boxes are fast to make (I’d probably use lock miters) and using prefinished maple ply and prefinished edge-banding essentially eliminates having to finish the boxes. The only tedious part of using ply would be applying and trimming the edge-banding. It becomes fairly more tedious if I decide to use solid banding because then I’d have to finish it, but that would be the ultimate in durability. One downside to using ply is that I can’t easily get 5/8” prefinished in this area, so I’m limited to 1/2” and 3/4” thicknesses. 3/4” feels a little chunky to me but maybe going 1/2” on smaller drawers and 3/4” on larger would be ok.


    Then there’s solid wood drawers (probably poplar) which offer the option for dovetailing. A significant amount of extra time over plywood boxes for prepping and dovetailing the stock, plus the boxes would need to be finished. Would allow for 5/8” thickness which I think is a sweet spot for kitchen drawers. I don’t mind the extra time IF it feels worth to me. My folks (clients) don’t have an opinion about this. My wife has a strong opinion that dovetailed drawers are the ultimate, but it’s not her kitchen.


    Since I’m spending so much time on this kitchen, I’d like it to seem/feel as high-end as possible, especially given that the house may be sold in a few years. However, I also don’t want to waste time on a process that may not really add anything to perceived quality. I know the dovetailed drawer box debate is an old one. Just thinking aloud and looking for opinions. I’d especially love to hear from those of you doing pro kitchen work these days in upper mid to high-end homes. Do people still value solid dovetailed drawers like they used to? This is a 4000 sqft home in the SF Bay Area.




  2. #2
    I'd recommend talking with some local Realtors familiar with the specific market and get their thoughts. They should know what the market is looking for. Plus if they are going to sell soon, it would be a good idea to get familiar and comfortable with some options for agents.

    What we as craftsman value isn't always the same as what the general buying public values. For example, in my last house, I did some period-appropriate texturing on the walls, a nice 20s-30s lace pattern. I heard more that a few people walking through say "Gee, that idiot didn't even sand the drywall!" ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!
    Last edited by Andrew Seemann; 12-27-2017 at 3:02 PM.

  3. #3
    If I saw dovetailed drawers I'd appreciate the effort and recognize the difference.
    I'm guessing 99% of the buying public wouldn't know the difference...or care.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    1,659
    Blog Entries
    1
    I'm visiting my dad for Christmas. His kitchen has 'high end' cabinets from a big box store, for whatever that is worth. They have dovetails (I guess some machines doing a million drawers a second can probably whip them out pretty quick). Him and I are probably the only people that have walked into this house that notice it.

  5. #5
    i think most buyers would notice full extension slides & soft close before drawer box construction. If the drawer boxes are going to be painted I think the dovetails are a lot less noticeable.

    Me - I would do the dovetails. I have a leigh jig so they don't take that much time and the boxes seem to assemble easier and stay square with half blind dovetails.

    I like bigger drawers that most (kitchen, closets, vanities, etc) - so all mine are 3/4" sides with 1/2" bottoms and undermount slides - it works for me.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Longmont, CO
    Posts
    810
    mine are stapled together plywood. custom cabs from a local maker that disappeared 90% of the way through the job. as long as they are solid and look pretty good, i don't really think many people will notice. I think the lock miters would be great.

    mine are all 3/4 sides and 1/4 bottoms. max width is only about 15 inches and they are about 6 inches deep.
    Last edited by Adam Herman; 12-27-2017 at 3:38 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,645
    Build what you want. Whoever buys it next will likely change the kitchen anyway. Even if they don't, they are unlikely to pay more or offer less based on how the drawers in the kitchen were constructed.

    John

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    10,304
    My perception is that the only people who notice or care about dovetailed lumber drawer boxes are the woodworkers. Given a choice that includes the cost difference, homeowners go with plywood all the time.

  9. #9
    Victor, I do a lot of kitchens in the bay area and Carmel, most of the homes being in the $2-5 million range. My standard drawer box is very similar to the pre finished plywood one you are suggesting, I use 3/4" edgebanded material. In the last 5 years when homeowners are given the choice they almost always choose the plywood drawer box. In fact we have been asked for dovetails only once.
    In the homes that are being sold I am very often in the house at the end when realtors and clients are walking through and not once have dovetail drawers been mentioned. Like the other comments have mentioned, its we as woodworkers that seem to care.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,675
    Dovetails are certainly a very nice feature and a strong way for the drawers to be built. I used them in my own kitchen, but in full disclosure, I bought them knocked down from Keystone to save a lot of time so I could focus on the rest of the work. I'd do the same today. Doing a few in the shop is one thing, but a whole kitchen worth is a big time-suck job for a one-person operation, including for a hobbyist, and the cost for knock down is pretty affordable.

    I do agree with the advise that if you're doing kitchens professionally, you'll want to understand what the local market expects in the types of homes you'll be working in. There are a lot of drawer systems in high-end cabinetry that are not dovetailed, too. Be comparable to the market or fine a way to make it more valuable to the client to have this feature...as a fee-generating option.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,252
    Blog Entries
    7
    I built drawers traditionally using hand cut dovetails for a kitchen. It's a lot of work, but I'm experienced with dovetails and hand work so not much of a time sink.

    I attended two parties at the same house which my kitchen is installed in, not one guest who commented on the kitchen asked how the drawers were built and I think they asked more 'woodworking' related questions than would be typical since I was in attendance.

    Most are more concerned with function, rightly so, I am concerned with function and how well my work lasts.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,408
    Thanks guys. You've given me a lot more clarity on the issue. I think a few things stand out to me as I'm reading your replies.

    1) Laypeople really don't care about dovetails - as I suspected - glad to have confirmation of that from those of you who see a lot of kitchens. And people talking about kitchens.
    2) Doing this many drawer boxes will be annoying enough, doing them in solid wood with dovetails will likely be the end of me.
    3) If for some reason I do decide to do dovetails, I'll sub out the drawer boxes.
    4) There is clearly no reason to do dovetails on the drawer boxes for this project.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Robinson View Post
    Do the pros around here think clients and people in general still value dovetailed kitchen drawers?
    I'm not a pro but most who know me consider me a perfectionist. I've built a lot of drawers that friends and neighbors have seen and admired. Only a small fraction have been made with dovetails yet I've never heard a comment on either type drawer construction from anyone about dovetails. What I hear first is comments about soft close slides and the drawer pull. Next is the drawer front, the stain and/or finish. Some comment on the finish inside the drawer. But it's in the opening and closing of the drawer that generates the most comments.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Issaquah, Washington
    Posts
    1,320
    For drawers in both commercial and residential sheet good commissions I use 1/2" prefinished Maple ply that is edge banded and comes in 8' x 6", 8" or 12" widths. I use #4 dominos that I flush cut for the corner connections. I do offer dovetail connections but have yet to have a customer who is willing to pay the add on cost. I use full extension, soft close undermount slides.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bill McNiel; 12-28-2017 at 1:44 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    i buy boards of laminated maple, 14-24" wide made of glued up 4" strips and any length I need. I mill them down to 5/8. Makes for a nice looking drawer and no more expensive than high end ply. Might be worth checking if you can source. Dave

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •