Sawstop Saga - like an episode of Columbo

[Dale Murray]

Following are the harrowing depths of troubleshooting required to figure out if it is the Switch Box or the cable.

1. Unplug saw.
2. Remove six screws on the left side of the switch box exposing the internal circuit board and RS-232 plug and port (similar to an old computer monitor port if you don't know).
3. Disconnect the cable from the RS-232 port.
4. Bend a paperclip with great skill and dexterity.
5. Jam the paper clip in to holes 6 & 8, see picture included in the post.
6. Plug in saw.
7. Turn power on.
8. Observe LED indicator lights.

If the left LED is on and solid (no blinking) then the power supply is good and the cable to the brake and arbor must be replaced.
If the left LED is off or blinking then the power supply is bad and should be replaced.

Wow. That took all of 10 minutes to complete, two of those were locating a paperclip.

In my case, it is the wire that needs to be replaced, $48.

IMG_3287.JPG IMG_3288.JPG

Could have told me this on Wednesday and I would be up and working next week. Could post these instructions on their website and I would be even happier.

[Simon MacGowen]

Following are the harrowing depths of troubleshooting required to figure out if it is the Switch Box or the cable.

1. Unplug saw.
2. Remove six screws on the left side of the switch box exposing the internal circuit board and RS-232 plug and port (similar to an old computer monitor port if you don't know).
3. Disconnect the cable from the RS-232 port.
4. Bend a paperclip with great skill and dexterity.
5. Jam the paper clip in to holes 6 & 8, see picture included in the post.
6. Plug in saw.
7. Turn power on.
8. Observe LED indicator lights.

If the left LED is on and solid (no blinking) then the power supply is good and the cable to the brake and arbor must be replaced.
If the left LED is off or blinking then the power supply is bad and should be replaced.

Wow. That took all of 10 minutes to complete, two of those were locating a paperclip.

In my case, it is the wire that needs to be replaced, $48.



Could have told me this on Wednesday and I would be up and working next week. Could post these instructions on their website and I would be even happier.

Thanks for this PSA. I have printed it out and tucked it with my manual...hope I will never need to use it though.

I would suggest that for your patience, SawStop should send you the wire free of charge. Not harm trying to talk to one of their supervisors, if the first technicians you contacted couldn't help about the freebie.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

My initial intention was not to buy a Sawstop, I was aiming for a Unisaw but I found this one (Sawstop ICS 3hp with 52" fence and mobile base) in near mint condition for $250 less than a new Unisaw, I figured it was worth it.

- I feel a bit sorry for the person handling their facebook messages - they just got an earful.

.

They DESERVED it!

SawStop management must revisit with its technicians/customer service how this went wrong and how it could be prevented from happening again.

Simon

[mreza Salav]

Sorry for the trouble you had to go through. I hope your issue is resolved. Maybe they didn't have the most informed technician these few days between holidays.
I agree they should have figured this out earlier; this is contrary to the service I have received from them, which has been excellent and way beyond what I expected on more than a couple of occasions.
I bought a demo ICS machine (years back) and while putting it together noticed a few discrepancies in their manual which I notified them. Then later on when I put on a new ZCI I got fooled by the slot for the riving knife thinking it will clear through the back and didn't remove it. Guess what happened (riving knife hit the blade and baaang!). Wrote to them that it would have been nice to have a sticker on the ZCI saying to remove the riving knife (eventhough there is a pre-cut slot at the back which "appears to clear the riving knife). They said that since 6 month ago (at the time) they have added such sticker and that I must have one of the first batches of the ZCI's they produced and sent me a new blade and cartridge free of charge. There has been a few other technical situations that they came out at the top.

[Brent VanFossen]

Thanks for posting the troubleshooting instructions. I hope that I never need them, but I will save them for later.
Maybe you said and I missed it, but you know how to bypass the safety feature, right? Turn the little key on the right side of the power switch when you turn on the motor. The light will flash, but the blade will turn. You *may* be able to use that workaround to bypass the safety circuit and use the saw until you get everything fixed.
Good luck.

[Dale Murray]

The very first thing a person should do is test with a second brake, this would rule out a defective brake.

If the prior steps indicate the power supply is good the next thing, I THINK, you should do is check the ribbon cable where it attaches to the arbor; basically a little finger that touches the casting.

Apparently schmutz can get between it and the arbor casting.
1. blast it with compressed air. Then test by powering on the saw.
2. Loosen the three screws holding it in place, blast with compressed air. Tighten screws, try again.
3. Completely remove it. Give it a good looking over. Ask about its family and how the kids are doing. wipe down the arbor, wipe down the sensor. Reassemble and test by powering on.

If it still fails that I would conclude its the wire.

Annoyingly I felt it was the wire all along but differed to the experts.

Saw is all put away.

[Keith Mathewson]

I bought one of the first models when they came out years ago. This saw has been used daily in a production shop and has preformed very well. Over the years I have replaced many parts of the saw and can tell you that for the first several years customer service was beyond outstanding. The people knew what they were talking about and returns, although seldom were never questioned. When improvements to the saw were made there were times when I was sent a newer improved part for free even if the original was working. In the past 2 or 3 years customer service has changed and is now more in keeping with the op's experience.

A couple of rants-
I have heard the complaints about Mr. Gass many times and have grown weary of them. The man made a better mouse trap and wanted to get rich off it. To my mind that is the goal of business, any business. Try buying a new car without seatbelts or not having the alarm constantly go off it not buckled.

If I'm careful I'll never get hurt.... I've met too many professionals who have had nasty cuts or lost fingers. The thought that you can do something everyday for 30+ years and never make a mistake is more than just wishful thinking.

[Joe Jensen]

Once Mr. Gass tried to get legislation passed to mandate that his technology be used in all table saws, he lost me. Be vigilant and use good safety practices and flesh sensing technology isn't necessary.

To now hear about the electronics failing and the company refusing to accept returns on unused parts, it just confirms my belief Mr. Gass is more interested in profits than safety.

Sorry to hear about your table saw woes, Dale. I hope you can find a work around and maybe find a way to divorce yourself from Sawstop.

Rewind tape and press play yet again. Is Mr Gass the one chasing profits of all the other saw makers who refused to pay for the tech. If you read the history he tried for several years to license before reluctantly building his own tools. Now, rewind your rant tape and press play again.

[Rick Potter]

Glad to hear you were able to finally find the problem. This time of year, I wouldn't be surprised if they had the newest person in the department handling the phones. I understand your frustration, but you might want to read the recent rant about Powermatic service. At least SS was trying to help, not just shining you on.

Hope it is up and running properly soon.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

"The issue I have is Tech support keeps sending me back to the well with "just one more thing" to test before we know for sure. That is not good customer service."

Sorry you had this experience, but I am glad to hear that your issue is resolved.

As a service professional who manages a large field and technical support team for electrical mechanical equipment (not saw stop), I can say some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you. It would have been great if the techs caught the issue on the first call, but some days the magic wand does not work well. I would be remiss, however, in not pointing out some exceeding good support you got:

1. The techs did not just start throwing parts at your issue, but actually wanted to identified the specific issue. It would have been very easy for them to have you start replacing components, especially with an intermittent problem. I know they did not get the resolution as fast as you would have liked.

2. The techs documented the troubleshooting they did and reviewed it before recommending a new course of action.

3. The techs spent a significant amount of time over several days supporting you at no charge even though: (1) you were not the original purchaser of the equipment and (2) the tool was not under warranty. This level of support is very, very rare. Try calling a major car manufacturer or you computer manufacture and asking them to walk you though several hours of troubleshooting support on a used, out of warranty piece of equipment.

[Martin Wasner]

Rewind tape and press play yet again. Is Mr Gass the one chasing profits of all the other saw makers who refused to pay for the tech. If you read the history he tried for several years to license before reluctantly building his own tools. Now, rewind your rant tape and press play again.

Clearly he doesn't want to be involved in manufacturing, since he hung onto the patents but sold the rest to Festo

[Mike Henderson]

Clearly he doesn't want to be involved in manufacturing, since he hung onto the patents but sold the rest to Festo

Sometimes there's a business reason for a company not to buy the patents. Sometimes the company purchasing the other company has patent cross licensing agreements with other companies. This is very common among companies who are in the same business. The reason they do that is that it's often almost impossible to make a modern product without infringing on each other's patents.

So if Festool bought the patents, other companies could have gotten the right to use those patents. By leaving them with Gass, Festool's competitors do not get access to the patents.

This was the situation in communication modems, which I spent most of my career in. The big companies all has cross licensing agreements because otherwise we'd have spent a fortune suing each other, and paying each other patent royalties. What it meant was that a company who did not have any (or many) patents essentially could not enter the business - it would have cost them too much in royalties.

With the 56K modem, AT&T had prior art on the technology but allowed an individual to obtain the patent, after they did a low cost licensing agreement with him. He then pursued all the other modem makers for higher patent royalties, which put them at a financial disadvantage to AT&T. Of course, today all those patents have expired and anyone can make modems - but not too many people want to buy them.

Mike

[Bill Dufour]

Sounds like a poor design if the wire fails just from normal use. Is the wire getting hit by sawdust and thrown bits of wood? Is the wire broken internally or is the connector bad.
On my 1985 Ford truck most of the wire connectors were latched tight and fairly hard to unplug. Same on my 2000 Ford. I do not remember but the 2000 truck almost all the wire connectors are filled with grease to prevent moisture damage.
Bill

[Darcy Warner]

I am pretty sure TTS (festool's parent company) owns the patent rights as well.

[Wade Lippman]

I can only partially agree with you.

Phones and computers are much much better today than their old grandparents.

But, vehicle safety is definitely one area I disagree with you on your observations. A friend of mine fell asleep behind the steering wheel last month on a highway in NY state and when he woke up, he saw fire engines and ambulance. He hit the back of a truck parked on the shoulder lane traveling at well over 65 mph (according to the state police estimate). One of the passengers died and he wishes (probably for the rest of his life) that he had driven his wife's car -- a less-than-one-year-old car with a pre-collision brake system, among all other advanced safety warning features.

I never cut my finger on the tablesaw before I got the SawStop. I never have had one single car accident, let alone falling asleep behind the steering wheel (I started driving in the early 70s), but I am now planning to get a new car in the new year that comes with the pre-collision brake system (a feature that was previously available only to luxury or high end cars).

Simon

I have a SS. Frankly it is a Pain, but people do cut off fingers and I would like to save mine; so I put up with not being able to cut aluminum on my TS. And no, just being careful is not a substitute. I put my finger into a BS when I was being careful and a piece of wood inexplicably split in half when I was 5" away from the blade. It happens.

OTOH, the car I bought last year had pre-collision braking for $1,000 more. In 45 years of driving, I never needed it. I can't imagine needing it. People say it can dangerous when it gives warnings for no particular reason. Instead, I will just not go out on the highway when I am too tired to drive safely.

I love the blind spot monitoring. That is a major safety feature and is a reason I bought a new car.