Tool imperfections happen

[Patrick Chase]

On the top side of the toe plate it is machined where it interfaces with the plane body. On mine, one side is machined and the other has a partial machining and mostly the surface left from the casting process. As far as the fit it works fine and the sole seems to be true.

jtk

I don't know that you could just get the insert replaced.

As far as I can tell from examining my planes, the manufacturing process is:

1. Machine those registration surfaces on both plane and insert
2. Surface-grind the plane sole with the insert in place

I'm judging this mostly based on machining marks from the surface grinding process, and could be wrong.

If I have that correct then after step (2) the main casting and the insert are "paired", which means that the insert isn't replaceable without regrinding the body.

[Jim Koepke]

highlight the sort of stuff that people should expect to fix for themselves

Maybe the world has changed too much from the days we would hone our own brake cylinders to save a few bucks or work on our own bicycle to improve performance.

In my youth, almost everyone of my acquaintance would work on their own vehicles due to lack of funds to hire a professional. Surely there were others who never ventured under the hood or even had to change an automobile tire by hand, not just change out a flat with a spare, but take the tire off the rim and put another on. Not many people are learning how to rebuild windshield wiper motors, carburetors or a mechanical voltage regulator these days.

These tasks didn't actually teach much about woodworking, but they did teach one how to use tools and correct or repair something that wasn't working. They were confidence builders.

Many of the folks on this forum are afraid to restore an old plane or file the mouth for fear of doing irreversible damage.

A century ago woodworkers were called mechanics. One almost had to be a mechanic to keep their tools working properly.

One of my favorite tools is a spokeshave bought from Lee Valley. It worked when it arrived, but for my personal pleasure it needed to have the casting flash sanded a bit for comfort and the bed needed a touch of fettling to 'make it mine.' It was a fine tool when it arrived. Now it is just a bit sweeter to me.

Maybe the best thing to do for today's youth would be to give them a 1960's era automobile and let them get it running.

jtk

[Dewayne Reding]

I'm recently back to the forum and admit I may not completely understand the context of the OP. I'm not one that complains much publicly. I vote with my wallet on the next purchase. Production tolerances should be commensurate with the price of the tool. If you retail your tool for 300% higher price than most of your competitors, then prepare to deliver VERY tight tolerances. I shouldn't have to finish manufacturing the tool unless it is very competitively priced. Adjust a tablesaw.... sure, correct sloppy machine work on a precision tool... no. The above was not directed at any brand in particular. JMHO.

[bridger berdel]

I don't know that you could just get the insert replaced.

As far as I can tell from examining my planes, the manufacturing process is:

1. Machine those registration surfaces on both plane and insert
2. Surface-grind the plane sole with the insert in place

I'm judging this mostly based on machining marks from the surface grinding process, and could be wrong.

If I have that correct then after step (2) the main casting and the insert are "paired", which means that the insert isn't replaceable without regrinding the body.

In which case you'd need to lap the sole after fitting the new toepiece. Else send the whole thing back for that process to happen on their machines.

[Patrick Chase]

In which case you'd need to lap the sole after fitting the new toepiece. Else send the whole thing back for that process to happen on their machines.

Yep, and that's exactly what I did after I "un-paired" the toe insert in my Jack Rabbet by hand-scraping the datum surfaces. My point was that L-N probably wouldn't send an insert a la carte.

[Adam Cruea]

While I try not to slander manufacturer's, I really don't correct any issues with their product, but instead ask for a replacement.

If some of our tools were $10, sure. . .take the time to fix it. However, with LN and LV, we do pay a lot for tools that are meant to be close to perfect and both companies tout their attention to detail. Also, I like to make the manufacturer aware because it could be a systemic problem that has crept in, for instance a grinding head or holding jig that's become damaged in some unforeseen way.

That being said, I've only had issues with LV, mainly because I've primarily bought from them. Cap irons came a little wonky to how they sat on the blades.

[Stanley Covington]

While I try not to slander manufacturer's,

Not a slander if it is the truth.

[James Waldron]

There's a line to be drawn between real QC problems rightly to be resolved by a manufacturer and "obsessing" over perfection.

In my shop, I am happy to fettle a new tool to address issues or improvements I perceive desirable in a new tool along the same lines as Patrick. I'm not happy to resolve QC problems in a new tool unless the fix is so simple and fully effective that the fix is a better choice than the time to return and replace the tool. Even then, I'm likely to call the manufacture to inquire about the problem and see what they have to say about it. If they ask nicely, I will return a tool even for a trivial issue if they want it to verify a manufacturing and/or QC problem.

Posting about such things on a forum is another, entirely separate matter. Would my on-line colleagues benefit from learning about my issues with a tool? Would my on-line colleagues benefit from learning about my experiences of dealing with the manufacturer? If so, I post. When I do, I'm careful to be factual and correct about these things and keep my discussion of problems with tools and/or manufacturers separate from my opinions and preferences.

[Christopher Charles]

Patrick and all,

Good thread and good observations. I've built exactly one wooden plane, through which I learned a ton about how planes work, what makes them not work and how much acceptable tolerances differ depending on the component or element.

I recently watched these two videos which made me think it is an incredible value that both LN and LV provide for their products at the cost that they do. I own planes from both, I've tweaked some minor issues, and have dealt with both manufacturer's and found them both to be responsible. Responsible in the sense of responding appropriately when something goes wrong. Hence, like Stan, I'm a loyal customer to both, in large part because the leadership of both companies project accountability and a culture of excellence. Which is not the same as expecting perfection...

Anyhow, hope folks enjoy the videos; I did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNIc1mjQqlE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOpwhFlD38M

[Brian Holcombe]

With the tool manufacturers like LN/LV and the boutique type tools I usually expect to sharpen and basic setup (lap back of the iron, tune up chip breaker) and start using the tool. I don't really expect to have to fix anything beyond that.

For Japanese tools I expect a certain level of setup.

Both typically meet my expectations, in fact I have not had to return a tool.

[Jason Lester]

I had the exact problem you mentioned with your LV #4 with mine. I had them ship me a replacement cap iron instead of grinding it myself. I'm wondering if they gave you the one I returned or if they just had a bad batch that weren't ground square?

[Reinis Kanders]

Good topic. I just spent a day trying to fix second brand new Makita scms saw. Just would not cut true when used in the slider mode, seems to be a systemic issue based on a brief internet search, weird that reputable company would not check if tools operate as advertised. These big tools are also pain to return, maybe manufacturers count on the users inertia.
Made me appreciate hand tools and their "slowness" even more Will probably make a miter jack instead.

[Adam Cruea]

Not a slander if it is the truth.

Completely agree. But at least try and give the manufacturers a chance to right a wrong.

Keep in mind, though, I haven't gone down that rabbit hole of Japanese tools yet. I've had my eye on some of the high-end chisels, but I really can't justify the cost when I have a perfectly acceptable set of Sweethearts.