Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 126

Thread: Calling all owners of Lie-Nielsen Scraping Planes; 212 112 85

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Do your research Patrick. Veritas® Scraping Plane http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...at=1,310,48431

    A feature unique to our scraping plane is an integral thumbscrew that bows the blade to eliminate ridges in the work surface caused by blade corners. The plane comes with a 0.055" high-carbon steel blade suited to this technique, and an optional 1/8" (0.125") thick blade of A2 tool steel is available for those who prefer uncambered blades.
    Err, I have the plane and am aware of the thick blade. I just don't use it for the reason I specified. What part do you think I haven't researched?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Broadview Heights, OH
    Posts
    711
    Probably trying to understand how LV can claim a thumbscrew and bowed blade is a unique feature. It’s only been used on a every #80 style scraper for 150 years.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,534
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Err, I have the plane and am aware of the thick blade. I just don't use it for the reason I specified. What part do you think I haven't researched?
    Has anyone trialled a light camber on these thicker rigid style scraper irons.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,120
    Hmmm, BTDT...
    SDC12517.jpg
    Stanley #80.....

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    Probably trying to understand how LV can claim a thumbscrew and bowed blade is a unique feature. It’s only been used on a every #80 style scraper for 150 years.
    Indeed :-). I expect that they would have trouble patenting that as an invention under the KSR-v-Teleflex precedent, but you never know.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    Probably trying to understand how LV can claim a thumbscrew and bowed blade is a unique feature. It’s only been used on a every #80 style scraper for 150 years.
    The statement loses context without the accompanying pictures, as LV is making a side-by-side comparison with what I would assume is the Stanley 112.

  7. #37
    I have had a L-N 212 for some 20 years. I use it mostly for spot removal of tearout on jointed edges, as it is easier than a card scraper to maintain a fair surface. I have never used it with a hook, just a honed 45 degree bevel. Set with a very slight (on the order of .001") projection, it produces fine shavings in hardwoods and works quite well for me. As the blade dulls I lean it forward slightly to increase the projection.

    I may experiment with a hook, but I expect that it would require more frequent burnishing and resetting than I sharpen presently- the setting of the iron is the fiddly part.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Michiana
    Posts
    3,046
    I just watched the LN video on using the #112 and I guess I’ve been taking the wrong approach. Deneb claims it’s intended to take exceptionally fine shavings on the order of .001 or thinner. I’ve certainly been trying to be more aggressive than that. Maybe I’ll monkey with it this afternoon and see how it goes.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Luter View Post
    I just watched the LN video on using the #112 and I guess I’ve been taking the wrong approach. Deneb claims it’s intended to take exceptionally fine shavings on the order of .001 or thinner. I’ve certainly been trying to be more aggressive than that. Maybe I’ll monkey with it this afternoon and see how it goes.
    That makes sense. Very thin shavings on hard/exotic woods are where unhooked scrapers do best. I keep a couple thin/flexible unhooked card scrapers on hand for exactly that. With that said I don't see what a scraping *plane* buys you for that sort of use case. IMO the planes (including the #80) are most useful when you want to comfortably take more aggressive shavings over larger areas.

    BTW you can take very thin shavings with a hooked scraper as well, particularly if you set a fine hook. In that case the hook retains the advantages of cutting at a much lower angle, and leaving a glassier surface.

    The biggest challenge with burnishing is preserving an adequately sharp and clean edge. To get the best possible surface quality you want the tip of the hook to be as sharp and smooth as the edge you would put on a smoothing plane. To do that you need to start with a pristine edge and then use light pressure with a smooth burnisher, taking successive strokes at increasing angles to "sneak up" on the final geometry. If you whale on the burnisher or try to take it to the final angle all in one go you'll end up with a crushed edge and a ragged hook that leaves tracks all over the place. Ditto for the approach of using a pointed object to "adjust" the hook angle after the fact, IMO.

    On a related note, burnishing a scraper work-hardens the tip of the iron. This is both a good and bad thing. It's a good thing because it actually increases edge life relative to the unhooked scraper blade (and note that most scraper blades are pretty soft at ~Rc50).

    It's a bad thing if you don't file away all of that work-hardened steel the next time you sharpen. I can't count the number of times I've obtained an unsatisfactorily jagged edge when polishing a scraper (the final step prior to burnishing), and seen the tell-tale "shininess" of residual work-hardened patches when examining it under magnification.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 01-06-2018 at 1:48 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Marina del Rey, Ca
    Posts
    1,934
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    ...I don't see what a scraping *plane* buys you...
    Perhaps you've never suffered from arthritis.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,582
    I've always used my card scrapers for just the slightest of material removal. Mostly creating more dust than shavings per se. Just a final kiss after smoothing. This is probably the intent. If you are doing much material removal you've got the wrong tool.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I've always used my card scrapers for just the slightest of material removal. Mostly creating more dust than shavings per se. Just a final kiss after smoothing. This is probably the intent. If you are doing much material removal you've got the wrong tool.
    Scrapers have an incredibly wide range of applications. Somebody who is truly skilled in their use (not me) could easily employ them for basically everything but roughing. If the applications you describe were all that existed then "heavy scrapers" like the 80 and 112 would never have been created.

    The classic example where you want to take more than the "slightest of material" is for smoothing extremely difficult surfaces like burl. Admittedly we have more alternatives now that we've regained the proper use of the cap iron (and certainly my own scraper use has fallen off a bit since then).

  13. #43
    Stewie,

    Yes, I always use a slight camber.

    David

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    2,367
    I have the LV version of that plane. I sharpen the blade, put it back in the plane (on a flat surfacs) and set the blade flush. Then change the angle of the blade until it takes shavings.
    Paul

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    OK, just for kicks i tried setting my LV scraping plane (112 equivalent) for moderately aggressive shaving on a maple offcut. The shavings range from under 1 to ~2 mils thick and basically look like plane shavings. The resulting surface has decent sheen, much better than I can do with sandpaper or an un-hooked scraper but worse than I can achieve with a smoothing plane.

    IMG-1452.jpg
    This isn't rocket science or even remotely difficult. It takes a little practice to figure out how to turn a consistent hook without mangling the edge, but that's about it.

    I can't understand for the life of me why L-N is providing the advice that they are. I understand that they cater to a lot of "well-heeled amateurs" who want stuff that works out of the box, but correct scraper setup is one of those things that everybody has to learn, preferably sooner rather than later. As noted above their assertion than thickening the blade eliminates the need for burring is incomprehensibly bogus - Adding more metal to the top of the iron doesn't change the cutting mechanics down at the edge.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 01-06-2018 at 8:04 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •