Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Need to stabilize this table

  1. #1

    Need to stabilize this table

    This table I built is a little unstable. I knew it wouldn’t be rock solid since it’s built with 2x2’s, but it’s what the customer wanted. The legs are all joined with glue and 1 pocket hole screw. Is there anything I can do to make his more stable without taking too much away from the design? I suggested adding boards that would connect each side on the top and bottom, but she didn’t want that. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    How about replacing the 2x2 frame with welded metal? Otherwise you need to do some triangulation. Maybe wires run diagonally.

  3. #3
    I suspect the immediate problem is glue with 1 pocket hole screw at each of those butt joints.

    Those three-way joints require some thought. If your customer is willing to go a little more industrial, you could place black L brackets at each intersection. This would require 24, so aesthetics are a concern.

    I would also add a couple 1x2's under the top if they are not already present.

    Any kind of X bracing to reduce racking is going to be hard to add without completely altering the aesthetics.

  4. #4
    That’s what I was thinking. Some sort of angled braces, but again, she wants the look to stay the same but doesn’t want metal legs.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Franklinville, NC
    Posts
    21
    I'd go with some wire cross ties. From under table top to bottom strechers, centered between all the legs.
    LIke two wire "X"s each way

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Elmodel, Ga.
    Posts
    798
    How about an inverted V coming down from the center of the table to the center of each side. Outside of cross braces, I don't see any other way to keep it from racking unless it is made of welded metal. Some clients have no concept of what happens when things are built. They see things on pinterest and other sites and they think it looks cool, but have no idea of the concept or engineering involved to make it work.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Carrollton, Georgia
    Posts
    1,815
    If she won't go with brackets, how about an extended apron ? Other than that, it's simply a cumbersome design from an engineering standpoint, no matter how much glue you use.

    Part of the problem may be those stretchers running across the floor. They do very little to shore up the stability and they, likely, will get kicked a lot.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    McKinney, TX
    Posts
    2,063
    It looks like the base is painted. If so what’s the diff between painted wood and painted welded metal?
    Steve Jenkins, McKinney, TX. 469 742-9694
    Always use the word "impossible" with extreme caution

  9. #9
    Yes the base is painted, but it’s distressed. Metal Would t be able to be distressed like the wood is.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,493
    Blog Entries
    1
    The design offers no racking strength. Either the material will have to be something that offers that strength with that visual weight (metal) or the acceptance of some sort of structure is required. Even if you did mitered M&T at the corners I would be leery of the lateral strength.

    mitered-tenon.jpg

    Angle brackets would certainly appear as an after thought to me. We have some clever folks on here. Maybe someone will come up with something that will work using 2x2's.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    2,162
    Remove the pocket screw.

    Flat steel angle brackets at least 3mm thick and 100mm long each way top and bottom of each leg. Make them 30mm wide.

    Router a matching rebate to set them in flush. They will now be totally invisible as they are top and bottom of the frame.

    Drill to screw them to each rail with two countersunk screws each rail.

    Also drill brackets to accept a 100mm or longer countersunk batten screw up the centre of each leg. Epoxy screws and brackets in place. This forms a composite structure rather than just metal fasteners on wood. This will now be structurally sound.

    In general, when attempting fragile looking furniture like this, it is necessary to put all material options up for consideration. Timber alone cannot do everything. It sometimes needs help from metals, plastics, ceramics, stone etc. Cheers
    Every construction obeys the laws of physics. Whether we like or understand the result is of no interest to the universe.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    The design offers no racking strength. Either the material will have to be something that offers that strength with that visual weight (metal) or the acceptance of some sort of structure is required. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Lomman View Post
    ... it is necessary to put all material options up for consideration. Timber alone cannot do everything. It sometimes needs help from metals, plastics, ceramics, stone etc. Cheers
    ^+1 X 2

    Architects and designers are sometimes charged with making things look 'pretty', but then don't have to actually build them. Engineers get the resulting design to figure out loads, strength of materials, acceptable deflection under load, and how to actually build a given structure. ...In this case, Michael may need to get his inner engineer engaged?

    I too, don't think you'll get the needed strength out of 2x2 wood (especially when I sit on it!). But if the spidery, wood-only look is spec'd by the architect and demanded by the customer, consider a 'tripod' of ~0.5" dia steel rod, welded with each of the 3 arms at 90deg to each other (just like the legs and stretchers), each arm 3-4" long. Drill the end of each stretcher and leg on it's long axis to receive one of the tripod's arms (a little deeper than the arms), then miter the stretcher and leg ends to allow the tripod to be 'buried' in the joint (invisibly).

    I don't know the size of the table, or its weight, or the quality of steel and heat-treat you might use, or if the owner will hold barn dances on it, so can't offer much more. Guess-timating the size from the photos, I'd think 1/2" dia. is a minimum. ...There is a lot of leverage on those joints.

    Even better would be to make the tripods from 0.25"W X 1.5"H flat bar (in the stretchers), welded to 1.5" X 1.5" X 0.25" angle (vertically, in the legs). This would still allow the steel brace to be buried and hidden in the joint. The racking strength would be >3-4 times what you'd get from round bar, but hugely complicates the installation (mortices, rather than drilling). If my reputation was riding on it, I'd use this in cold-rolled, then heat-treat.

    Option 2: Trial and error with reinforcing methods until you find acceptable solution.

    Option 3: Hire structural engineer to do the guzinta work?

  13. #13
    Michael Furey,

    To stabilize the table without calling attention to it, remove the table top boards at the corners and use a countersunk corner bracket and on the bottom of the trestle (paint it out), for example:

    Table Stabilizer_1.9.18.jpg

    Where you have more depth into the vertical components, the corner lag screw can be larger diameter and longer.

    Alan

  14. #14
    If you installed some decent sized wood gussets (corner braces) in the corners of the top frame, directly underneath the table top, it would stiffen the top part of the assembly and no one would see them.

    Also, it's hard to tell from the photos, but is what we're seeing basically two complete rectangular frames separated by four posts? If so, then I think even the existing design would be vastly improved by joining the horizontal members like aprons to the four posts (like Alan's drawing above). In other words, the horizontal members should be joined to the vertical members, not to each other.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    1,659
    Blog Entries
    1
    I made a bistro table where I wanted to make long vertical legs out of wood. They were 1" x 1". The table had steel and wood.

    I ended up welding a 1/2" x 1/2" sq steel tubing vertically and wrapping it with the wood. Worked pretty well.

    I think this design only works with welded steel frames. You could wrap that steel frame with wood. We dado'd one piece and made the second piece as the 'cover'. So the U shape went around the tube and the cover got glued on to the open side.

    cafe table 2 (2).jpg

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •