Laminating Veneer Question

[ROBERT FALK]

Opinions needed,
I was fortunate enought to get about 1-1/2 sheets of Paperbacked Walnut Veneer for a ridiculous price for a project I've spent 10 months designing.

The idea is to laminate it onto 1-1/2" thick pcs of plywood and am wondering what is the best way to do it. I hate the thought of using Contact Cement on an heirloom piece but I do not have the right amount of clamps to properly adhere it with conventional pvc glue. There are 3 pieces about 25" x 96" long.

I have located someone who will do hot platten gluing for about $200 (including plywood).

Question is whether or not to do it with Contact Cement - and how would you do it?

[Steve Cox]

Hot platen will work as will contact cement although like you, I wouldn't want to use it on an heirloom piece. Vacuum veneeering would be my choice and many woodworkers have that equipment today. Where are you located? There may be someone here on SMC that can help you.

[ROBERT FALK]

I'm in Northern New Jersey

[tod evans]

contact cement is not your best choice. if this is your first veneer project be thankful you got the paperback it`s far less likely to bubble on you. depending on the size of your panels(i`m taking for granted they are flat) you can get the job done quite easily using common lumberyard materials, first you must have a platten that is as large or larger than your panel and flat, like another panel... then i use plain old aluminum flashing to register against the veneer. so you build a sandwich of panel to be veneered,glue,veneer,flashing,platten, then stack everything heavy you can find on it. wait the alloted time and remove. as for glue any glue that won`t creep works, at the lumberyard you`ll most likely find weldwood plastic resin or a polyurethane based glue these don`t creep, your yellow and white glues will creep. do a practice run on your scrap first but you should have an easy go of it. another method of clamping is to use angle iron and bolts accross the sandwich. hope this helps? tod

[Charlie Plesums]

I also would not use contact cement. Since 1 1/2 inch plywood isn't free, the $200 offer including plywood sounds pretty good to me, for three 2x8 foot panels.

Stepping back a bit, I am worried about what you are trying to do. Paper back veneer is easier to apply but there are two down sides

1. The veneer is so thin that it basically can't be sanded. Light hand sanding, maybe, but don't plan on using a ROS to bring it flush with a glued-on edge, for example
2. The paper shows at the edge... it needs to be in a frame of some sort to hide the relatively thick line of paper

Given the relatively fragile veneer, what are you building that this veneer is going on 1 1/2 inch thick plywood? It may be fine for a floating panel on an interior door, but probably won't be great on a countertop or shelf that will get a lot of wear.

[ROBERT FALK]

This will be used on vertical panels for a bedframe where the edges are not seen. See rendered drawing at http://www.falkdesigns.net/services.html, scroll down and see the bed.

You folks all made great points, but I think my gut feeling is to send it out for conventional platten pressing - unless I can find someone who does vacuum forming.

I feel as though I'd be fouling on the goal line considering the fact that it took me so long to find this veneer.

[john lawson]

Why not vacuum press it yourself? If you are willing to spend $200, you can make your own vacuum press, that will last you for years, for the same amount of money. Do a little research on-line. One source is a website, do a Google for "joe the woodworker". On his website he give you all the information needed.

I built my own system using a new Gast vac pump, which I bought off Ebay, and made my own 20 mil vinyl bag. The total cost was about $180.00.

By the way, I have sucessfully used yellow glue with this system (I figure if it was good enough for Krenov it was good enough for me). This summer I tried using Unibond 800. It is a superior veneering adhesive. It cleans up with water and does not shrink.

Good luck whatever you decide to try

[Richard Wolf]

I'm with Charlie on this one. You will spend almost $200 on plywood to do it yourself. It you really need 25" panels, you can't even get two pieces out of a sheet unless you can find extra wide.
Another word of caution, if you vacuum press, with thin open pored wood like you have, a vacuum press will suck the glue right thru the veneer. You MUST use what is called a blocker on the veneer to stop this from happening or you will have glue stain on the face of the veneer.

Richard

[Charlie Plesums]

As someone who is getting ready to buy a vacuum setup, I would probably make my own 1 1/2 inch plywood by laminating two layers of 3/4 inch, at the same time that I applied the veneer. I would also try to find a way to use 23 7/8 inch panels, not 25 inch, to cut material cost in half.

I would use urea formaldehyde glue since it works well in vacuum, doesn't creep after it is set, has a long open time, and also is a nice brown color that disappears among the figure of burl... might not be too bad if you had a small accident with the walnut.

Question for Richard... with the paper back veneer, won't the paper layer block the glue seep through?

[Richard Wolf]

Question for Richard... with the paper back veneer, won't the paper layer block the glue seep through?

Thats a good question Charlie, one I'm not experienced enough to answer. I certainly think some testing would be in order.

Richard

[Roger Everett]

Yes, the paper layer does keep from have glue bleed-thru. Although you can get some very nice paper-backed veneer, I don't like to use it, due the thinness of the veneer. It's also tricky if you want to do an iron-on method for small areas, as can delaminate from the paper if not very carefull with the heat.
Roger

[Dev Emch]

I veneer all the time. But I usually cut my own veneer by resawing so its rather thick and I dont have to worry about the glue working up from below.

Contact cement is horrid. It will delaminate in time. The glue I prefer for this is resourcinol and its color will work very well with walnut. You can also use a urea glue with either a brown or yellow catalyst. I got a sample of this from the vendor of my vacum bag clamp but I have not tried it yet. Resourcinol is excellent as its water proof when cured, has a great set up time meaning your never rushed and is virtually creep free. It also cleans up with soap and water when its not yet cured.

[Todd Woodward]

I'm still trying to figure out how you are doubling your veneer. You said you have a sheet and a half and then you say you have 3 sheets. which one is it? I say make your own veneer press and take the plunge. I'm sure you'll think of all kinds of uses for it once you have it.