The Meatcutter Giveth and the Meatcutter taketh away.. New Focus on Safety. Must Read

[Dev Emch]

Folks, we have now read about two horrible accidents with router tables in less than one week. First of all, my best wishes to those involved for a full and speedy recovery.

These accidents happened to good folks who have time in the trenches.... they were not beginners to the state of the art. This makes this just the more concerting. Lets all take a few minutes to review personal safety within our own operations.

Often, a nasty accident will occur when you allow your fingers to come into close proximitry to the cutting element. This cutting element could be table saw blade or it could be a router table bit or even a jointer. Usually, the driver does not merely drive his digit into the path of the blade. Rather, some kind of "event" occurs in which the work item is forcibly moved in such a way as to draw the digit into the path of danger. Nobody willing drives his finger into a saw blade for entertainment purposes!

So lets begin living by one of my first rules. 1). NEVER ALLOW YOUR MEAT TO COME WITHIN 8 INCHES OF THE KNIVES! This rule may require you to use chicken sticks, push blocks or other saftety devices. So be it. I call push sticks chicken sticks because I myself am to chicken to violate this first of my rules! You guys may not always agree with my often controversal viewpoints; however, PLEASE LISTEN TO AND FOLLOW THIS ONE!

Now, about shapers and router tables. These machines are likely to be the most dangerous ones in the shop. The old trade name of Meat Cutter for a shaper head should tell you about the history of some of these machines. Unlike moulders and tenoners, shapers & router tables often have the knives right out there where you can get into them in a hurry.

With a proper fence set up, running a moulding cut is fairly simple and safe. But remember, moulding cut push sleds are a great idea and make things much easier and safe. It also reduces the stress and fear of injury making your work more accurate and enjoyable. And it keeps you from sticking your fingers in the fore or aft vincinity of those knives!

Coping cuts should always be done using a coping sled of substance. Some can run along the infeed table edge and use this edge to guide. Others actually use the mitre gage slot to guide them. In either case, if you find yourself freehanding a coping cut, STOP NOW! Take the delay and get a sled; either homemade or purchased. Many shapers today are using sliding tables and this is the main reason for putting a sliding table onboard a shaper. It produces an extremely accurate cut while at the same time, it keeps you from having your fingers drawn into the knives. See my shaper post to see how my sliding table functions. No way I would ever consider freehanding that tiny board! Not unless I wish to be called lefty.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...=belated+gloat

Free handing parts on shapers and router tables is the hardest task of all. Often, all you have is a single guide pin to assist you here. In some cases, a plastic disc is installed over the cutter on the spindle to keep you aware of where the knife circle is and to keep you from poking your fingers into the knives from above. In any event, I consider this operation to be the most dangerous one I know because you have a huge cutter head mounted as much as a few inches off the table surface with absolutely no substantial guards in place. This is one operation where you need to be 100 percent focused and tune out every other issue you have in your brain at that time. If you have issues, then one that will not be relevant at this time is your shaping the part on the shaper or router table..... because your not going to turn that switch on!

Freehanding parts on the shaper is an excellent way to produce many different parts. I actually use the terminus cutter head pictured in my belated shaper post for this very purpose. That and and a huge hunkin follower bearing. But I also use one other tool for various free hand part shaping operations...... a follower jig.

If your making a set of stickley chairs for example, you want every chair part to be as identical as possible. Once you have designed the part, then you need to build a jig out of baltic birch to accept a chair part blank and equip it with DeStaco clamps to hold the blank tightly in place. A buddy of mine who also owns a hofmann shaper spent months working evenings on these shaping jigs. He would use some wormy, splated maple to test out how these jigs work and adjusted them to finally he had the perfect chair parts. In some cases, the part needed as many as three different shaping jigs. All three being dependent upon one another. Each jig had substantial lathe turned handles to keep the hands out of the way of the cutter head and to allow one to use substantial force to hold the part and jig to the shaper as needed. These follow the 8 inch rule to the note! But they also produce parts that are so identical, they are interchangeable.

The advantages of using the terminus head I have pictured on my shaper are many but here is one to think about. The part shaping jig you produce assumes a given diameter for a cutting circle. If this circle changes each time you swap out or sharpen knives, then your parts will be slightly different from batch to another. This may be very bad for your project. The terminus head uses interchangeable knives that have a fixed and set cutting circle each time. That is why I use this head and not another one that uses straight knives set in gibs or straight knives utilizing the corregated shaper head technology often found in moulding heads.

As to the table saw. Just remember how the gears in your manual transmission operate. They are very efficient for transmitting mechanical power are they not.... Well, the same thing happens when you have a work item go off center on your table saw. As a board goes off center, it often rides up on the saw blade and the blade is no longer cutting. Rather, the teeth act as gears engaging the material your working on and then boom, it launched across the shop with massive horsepower. It takes a quarter of a second or less to instantly transfer 3 or more HP into an impulse force. In my case, as much as 7.5 HP on the oliver. That can shove a 2x4 through the wall and leave it sticking there! So keep your work item riding straight and against the fence. Use a riving knife if possible. And keep good solid downforce on the work item. Use a push block if needed to maintain this downward pressure and to keep in accordance with my 8 inch rule.

And if it does not feel right, stop right now. Build a jig to assist you whose design gives you the confidence to continue.


So as many of you begin your new jobs as elves of the season, please remember to follow some of these tips and stay safe out there.

[Michael Gabbay]

Dev - Good point. The router table is my most feared/respected tool in the shop. I go out of my way to make sure I use a safe technique. For one of the tables I built, I took about 4 hours designing a jig to cut a two sided curved taper for the legs. In the end it was the best 4 hours I could have spent.

As far as free handing, forget it! That's an accident waiting to happen. I use my fence to support the tail end and push blocks to support the piece.

Mike

[Mark Singer]

Dev,
Very good points...you can't be too smart with routers in tables or freehand. Most people try to remove too much material in one pass....do it in several passes...the work is cleaner and much safer. Sleds and proper set ups are critical for safety... I will try to spent the time taking so pics of methods that I have found to be safer

[Larry James]

Dev - very good info, scary, but good.

As a neophyte woodworker, I have used a router on an occasional basis since the '70s. Now retired, I'm in the process of building a new router table to use with a top package I recently bought. However, this thread has given me reason to question if I'm doing all I need related to safety.

My question is, do I have a false sense of security using table and fence feather boards, and a bit guard when possible? I'm referring to the type sold by suppliers for use on router tables. Can they add to the danger in some cases?

My approach to table saw safety was greatly increased when trying to rip the groove off a piece of T&G pine - the cutoff kicked back and impaled my forearm. The cutoff was on the non-fence side of the blade. Don't even like to think about where it could have hit. I was using a push stick and did have safety glasses on.

I'm listening, the term "meatcutter" got my attention!

[tod evans]

this may cause some discourse here but i`m going to post it anyway becouse it works for me........ i don`t believe that a router belongs in a table period!!!!!! the manufacturers put handles on them for a reason, if both your hands are holding the motor it`s very dificult to engage the bit with them. long before i could afford a shaper i made doors and windows cope and sticking cuts by holding the router and anchoring the work piece, i also raised panels this way, no speed control other than my finger on the trigger, and a large mdf sub-base.. if the bit needs to be stationary the tool for the job is a shaper. even a small shaper is quite easy to jig up for just about any operation that requires the bit to be stationary. just the nature of a shaper will cause anyone with common sense to use jigs/hold downs/etc. to pass the wood over the cutters. routers being small normally hand held tools with small bits give folks a false sense of security. router tables in the last 10-15yrs have gained popularity mainly because of the price both for the tooling and the table itself but how do you place a price on fingers?? i only know what works for me and everybody does things differently but please think long and hard before using a handheld tool in lieu of the proper one. .02 tod

[Keith Christopher]

Bottom line is this, sharpened steel wins over flesh everytime. Be it a chisel or a tablesaw. We should always listen to that inner voice and always be as safe as possible. It's when we don't do what we know to do, or do what we know to do safely when accidents happen. There is always a level of impending danger around moving parts be it hand held or table mounted. All of the advice here is good to follow, but in the end all the jigs in the world won't save you if you don't use them. I was putting a small chamfer on the back of some cherry for a mirror I'm making. I screwed everyone to a larger board before heading to the router table. Am I scared of these tools, somewhat. Do I respect them, H-E-double hockey sticks YEA! I spend alot of time contemplating a cut. Prolly makes me a slower woodworker but I'm ok with that.


Keith

[Dev Emch]

Tod...
I own FIVE routers now and none of them are used in a table. NONE OF THEM.

Routers were *NEVER* designed to be shapers. So when we use one under a table for the role of shaper, we are also accepting a multitude of compromises. The fence system and sled/sliding table aspect leave quite a bit to be desired. I really do like what Jessem has done with fences, mitre gages, and bushed push sleds. Very nicely done. But to equip a router table with all these Jessem tools can push the router table cost including the router well in excess of $1000 dollars. That cost will make a hefty dent in the purchase of a new X5 Delta HD shaper. If I purchase a nice, used, late model delta HD shaper, then I will have more than enough left over for the chrismas dinner expense and the year end party.

And one guy I know actually purchased a used but very functional Fay & Egan 552 Lighting shaper for $500 bucks. That is one of the all time best shapers made!

Many older, industrial shapers including the venerable Oliver 287 never had fences or had poor fences when originally sold. The reason was that each craftsman and each industry that these craftsmen were in had unqiue demands on this type of tooling. Boeing making airplane parts needs different fencing than say Ethan Allen who makes furniture. So the role of making jigs for these machines is an old and established artform. But as many folks begin using router tables in place of shapers and dont have the opportunity to learn how to design and build useful jigs and associated tooling for these machines, injuries will follow suite.

And the makers of these tools as well as the magazines who review these tools all are struggling to eliminate any liability from the use of these tools. Most magaines avoid articles involving shapers at all cost. If a shaper does show up in an article, its as a secondary, sideline type machine and operation. And there is always the phrase, .... we used a shaper for this operation; however, you can also use a router or table mounted router to do the same....

So I know that there is economic pressure to use a router table and I will rcognize that. I too have used router tables. But one should always consider this when buying very expensive router tables because you may be better off with just a shaper.

[Scott Parks]

i don`t believe that a router belongs in a table period!!!!!! the manufacturers put handles on them for a reason, if both your hands are holding the motor it`s very dificult to engage the bit with them.

Amen to that Tod! I don't own a router table, either. I've only used one once. I can do a lot of the same things with the router held by hand, and keep my precious 10 fingers away from that bit. The thought of a "big" router bit spinning at 10,000 rpm bugs me. There are other ways of doing things that people comonly use the router table for. I've never been limited by not owning a router table.

Seems like router tables are a huge fad lateley. Just check out the magazines over the last few years. Lots of attatchments and doodads for the router table, and expensive, too. The other con I see to a table is, where do I put it? I don't have room for one.... Ante another .02 to the pot....

[Mark Singer]

There is certainly inherent danger in using a router table...there are things you can do to make it safer. Think about how much force a tablesaw blade exerts on a work piece when it is only removing 1/8" at a time! The router should only remove small amounts of material. Make several passes! The tablesaw will kick back a fairly lrge piece of wood...when the router does it and your hand is holding it, it can easily be forced into the spinning bit....in a flash of a second. Sleds with toggle clamps and proper machining set ups can make the router much safer and remove hands from the danger zone and guide the work piece so it cannot move freely. Feather boards and hold downs are important. The direction of the grain and the bit are very important. When pushing against the rotation the work piece is pulled into the bit....when climb cutting it is pushed away... Crossing the grain adds resistance and the workpiece can be forced or pulled very quickly... Minimize the exposure of the bit....close down the fence clearance.... The router table is among the most dangerous of tools in the shop and require common sense and more set up time. You need to stay in control if you are not, stop ....do it another way

[Paul B. Cresti]

I use both a full blown shaper and router table in my shop. My shaper, MM T50N, has a sliding table, outrigger rollers, tenoning capabilities, a power feeder, a specially design free hand shaping hood and many spindle sizes including a 1/2" router spindle. It is the machine of choice for all my profiles (including all my router bits) especially when using the feeder. I am no where near the cutter period.

I use my shop built router table, with shop built fence, plate and inserts for nothing but cuts that have the bit completely covered by the stock: roundovers, rabets, occasional dado or slot. I also use this router table for my PC OSS as my spindle sander. Since I now added this router table to my outfeed side of my EFSTS it is now also a dado machine.

Using a router mounted in a table for shaping is very dangerous. I have done it before when I did not own a shaper but I took very light cuts. it took much longer but it was safer. If you really want a router table make your own, it is easy. If you want to shape large profiles do cope and stick..... do yourself a favor get a shaper and all the necessary jigs (or make them) in order to use is correctly. In addition expect to buy a feeder almost immediately. As I have suggested with a EFSTS, get yourself away from the bit at all costs. Wood is a living medium and it can do some pretty funny things when you least expect it.

[Mark Riegsecker]

quote=Dev Emch]. But one should always consider this when buying very expensive router tables because you may be better off with just a shaper

I have only gotten hurt one time about 25 years ago and it was from a router along with inexperience. I decided it would be fun to make a picture frame it was small only 5"x7". So I got a sears router and little pressed steel table top stand.
As I was bearing down in the process of cutting a roman ogee, the piece flew from the table into the wall and only air was between my fingers and the cutter. I wished later after realizing what had happened someone would had told me not to cut the frame into 5" pieces until later

Because the price of a shaper over the router and table is pretty much equal, I recently purchased a 3 hp General shaper, not because I think a router under a table is dangerous, I'm still going to use it. I just thought for the money why not use the machine for its intended purpose.

I just hope I don't have to learn the hard way with this new machine

[Dev Emch]

Mark, I agree. And there seems to be a renassance in shapers lately. Each year at the woodworking show, I see more and more shaper cutters available and the price is getting better and better. Sweet.

As I have said before. First of all, the hook and relief angle are way different on shaper cutters! And quite a few now have shear angles as well which helps greatly in end grain or coping cuts. This allows a shaper cutter to spin at about 7500 RPM. Speed is shaper dependent. I often spin most of my cutters at 6000 RPM (i.e. the Leitz and Leiser heads). Most 1.25 in bore Freeborns are designed for 8000 RPM. Give or take a bit really does not make that much difference. I can spin a freeborn at 6000 or 9000 RPM and still get pretty good results. But the cut is different. Even the feel is different. Instead of getting a bumble bee comming off a hunger strike, I get a nice smooth munching of wood as I go. No massive blowouts, no power freak control episodes, just a nice velvet-eey smooth munching effect. And great surface finish and often, no burning at all. This is significant if you work cheery or maple.

Another thing to consider. Woodworking and metalworking have a deal with feeds and speeds. As any cutter does its thing (i.e. cutting), friction heat is generated and this heat is removed by the chip comming off the cutter. So a constant chip load is really a good thing to use a Martha-ism. Router bits spin so fast and remove much to little material to significantly remove excess heat when needed. Only when your using a mind blowing feedrate does your chip rate become high enough. This means you should be using a power feeder on speed to do this. What if you dont? Most router table guys are using two handed feed rates which is to slow. The result is that they often get burning and the bits get dull way to fast. This statement is counter intuative but when i am taking cuts on my metal lathe with carbide cutters, I am throwing blue colored steel ribbons and chips. The chips are comming off red hot and turning blue. As long as I maintain that chip load, I am just fine. Certainly I would not do this with high speed steel tooling and that is another set of feeds and speeds.

A similar argument holds for moulders and shapers. For example, why do some shaper cutters have three and four knives? Good Question as they are often not needed. Many profile cutters only have two knives. First of all, its cheaper to make a cutter with two knives versus four knives. But also, these cutters are not always used with power feeders and moulders but rather with operators just hand feeding. For hand feeding, two knives is more than enough. Any more and you will prematurely dull your knives due to sluggish feed rates.

So once again we see that large, complex router bits are a strange compromise of design features. Shaper cutters are what they are and they were designed to cut these profiles from the get go eons ago.

Here is more food for thought. When I roll a round billet of steel, very often, the outer section of the steel has been cold worked differently than the inner section of that steel. This makes the steel vary by cross section as its tensile strength. So if I purchase a bar of steel 3.25 inches in diameter and 20 feet long and cut this into router bit blanks, I will have a problem. As my CNC lathe hogs out the router bit profile, I am cutting away all the good steel and leaving only the inner 1/2 inch of steel for my shank. That is the weakest section of steel in that billet. Had I made a shaper cutter, then I would have bored that blank out to say a 3/4 inch bore and removed the weakest section of that billet. So I can make much stronger shaper cutters if I can only bore out the pith from the middle of my billet. Cannt do that with a router bit!

Shapers have massive top end quill bearings. Much more robust than a router which is a joke when your spinning a cutter with a 3.5 inch OD cutting circle. These larger router bits often spin at 10K RPM but that is still to much for that size cutter and those tiny bearings in the router. In time, your surface finish will reflect the bearing damage that is being done. Its the same reason I dont use a 12 inch diameter fly cutter on a bridgeport milling machine!

But the router table guys and router bit guys will tell you otherwise. But hey, your buying the routers so the drinks are on you.

Have you router table guys ever cut a 3 inch long tenon on a router table? Its possible but not with a single pass! And not with without some special working holding jig. A shaper can do this in one pass. Both sides and all cheeks at once. The table saw cannt even do this in one pass unless I have dual blades and then i still have to make the cheek cuts.

And lastly, shapers are not inclined to grab your work item and hurl it across the shop. Shapers have their own issues but for the most part, they are massively safter than router tables. I could write books on shapers but this enough for now. In closing, I will say that router tables quite frankly scare the heck out of me and for good reason. Forget the olde grande DeWalt RAS as being dangerous..... that title goes to the router table.

[tod evans]

[quote=Dev Emch]Mark, I agree. And there seems to be a renassance in shapers lately. Each year at the woodworking show, I see more and more shaper cutters available and the price is getting better and better. Sweet............................................. .......................................
i just checked the green importers web site and a small shaper with 1/2 and 3/4 spindles is under 500 bucks. a porter cable 7518 is 290 bucks,add a cheep lift 250 bucks two sheets of plywood 80 bucks a piece of formica 15 bucks several hours to assemble the parts into a replica of a real shaper and you have a replica of a shaper that cost more money, isn`t as versatile and is substantially less accurate..as dev said the cutters have come down in price to the point that we`re talking only a few dollars difference in price.......now if we add a power feeder to a real shaper it`s mounted by drilling and tapping cast iron whereas if we stick the same feeder on our homemade/store bought router table we are most likely through bolting it to plywood or mdf........feeders must be securely mounted in order to do their job effectively so just the amount of compression in a wood product will affect the stability of the feeder. i don`t think what i have written is news to anyone here but i hope it will shed some light on the cost effectiveness of all the pretty little gizmos in the mail order catalogues....let alone the safety......02 tod

[Chip Charnley]

Guys,

I am immensely greatful for this thread. I was going to a woodworking show this weekend with the intent of buying a lift and table for my router. I think I will be looking at shapers instead.

[Dev Emch]

Exactly my point. If the salesman says it looks like a Honda, drives like a Honda and functions like a Honda, maybe you should be looking at a Honda instead? Esp. if the Honda may cost less money.

I think the Jessem router table setup is really killer. Its like candy for grownups. But at the end of the day, I can just about if not purchase a Delta HD shaper for that money and at the end of the day, the jessem is still what it is.... a router table.

And nothing is stoping you from taking some of these add-ons like those made by jessem or incra and adding them to your shaper.