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Thread: How is a Shaper safer than a Router Table?

  1. #1

    How is a Shaper safer than a Router Table?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Johnson2
    Dev
    Out of curiosity what makes a shaper safer then the router table. I just made some doors and such that a friend cut on his shaper to save me from buying bits for the router. He did it in a couple passes and it did come out very nice, but the thing did look pretty scary, which is why I passed on doing it myself. Is it a speed thing?
    I saw this question it another thread. I had the same question after reading other posts that were written after the Holiday accidents.

    One thing that was left out of the other posts was, what role operator error played in the accidents. It did play a big part. Just like it did 21 years ago when my hand tangled with a tablesaw blade. My hand looked much like Shelley's. I just had a couple shorter fingers.
    My first thoughts were not to blame the saw. My first thoughts were, what did I do wrong & how can prevent it from happening again. Shelley also took this aproach by redesigning the fence & making push blocks for the process she was doing. I applaud her for doing it only days after the accident. It took me much longer to just go back to the shop.

    I also read statements that a router should never be mounted in a table.
    If that is the case then why do companys that build routers aslo sell tables. Also some of the top name pin routers have hand held router motors mounted under there tables.

    As for safety. From my experience, a router mounted in a table is less
    dangerous than a shaper. I have done alot of work with both. If anything the shaper is more dangerous than a router in a table. The shapers have more power & the cutters are larger.

    I have had a routers in tables & shapers for over 30 years. I would never want to be without ether one. But if I could have only one, I would choose a router table. I can do everything with a router table that I can do with a shaper. But there are things I can do with a router table that I can not do with a shaper.

  2. #2
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    I think they are both dangerous and it really comes down to proper set up...using sleds and hold downs...predicting what can happen and avoiding it...understanding the movement of the cutter relative to the wood, the forces etc..taking multiple passes and removing less material at a time. You must stay in control and not be guessing...posture is very important...your stance should allow you to react quickly! For a long time on SMC members have discussed the safety of the tablesaw...very rarely the router table or shaper....to me the tablesaw is safer and more predicatable
    If the ideas mentioned above were used, I don't think any injuries would have occured as we recently witnessed
    Even when we recently visited Maloof and he has a reputation of working fast and doing things that to most woodworkers seem unsafe....he took the time to lower the blade guard on the bandsaw...he said "Don't work with any more blade exposed than you need to"
    Last edited by Mark Singer; 11-29-2005 at 9:33 AM.
    "All great work starts with love .... then it is no longer work"

  3. #3
    chris, when c.r.onsrud placed the porter cable 7518 in their low end inverted pin router they did so with a cast iron table and a solid raise/lower mechanism used in conjunction with the overarm guide pin. quite a bit different than the garden variety router table. sears and porter cable have offered a rinky-dink router table that a person can pick up one handed......i don`t really think those are worth discussing.as for why a shaper is safer, you answered your own question. because it is more powerful with a larger cutter anyone with common sense will devise a method of moving the wood safely past the cutter, add to this the fact that the spindle is mounted solidly in cast iron greatly reducing the chance of the cutter moving from its rotation.( how are the router motors in tables mounted?) i`m not trying to convince you or anyone to stop shaping wood whatever way you`re comfortable with, if you feel safe using a router table then by all means continue. the reason i have taken the time to type these observations of mine is because a friend chewed up her fingers and i think it prudent on my part to let those who are just starting woodworking know that there is more than one way to achieve an end.i too have been butchering boards for lotsa years and only speak with the voice of my experience....02 tod

  4. #4
    Tod you are right. After thinking about it router bits are alot more scary than shaper cutters.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans
    chris, when c.r.onsrud placed the porter cable 7518 in their low end inverted pin router they did so with a cast iron table and a solid raise/lower mechanism used in conjunction with the overarm guide pin. quite a bit different than the garden variety router table. sears and porter cable have offered a rinky-dink router table that a person can pick up one handed......i don`t really think those are worth discussing.
    I agree that "rinky-dink lift-with-one-hand" router tables aren't worth discussing...but they are not what we've been discussing. And that certainly doesn't describe the router tables in use during the two recently-reported incidents.
    as for why a shaper is safer, you answered your own question. because it is more powerful with a larger cutter anyone with common sense will devise a method of moving the wood safely past the cutter...
    (scratches head) I translate that as "shapers are safer because they're more dangerous"...huh?!? I agree that some operations (like making raised panels) are better left to shapers just because of bit size, but when these two tools are used for appropriate operations, the question stands: what makes a shaper safer than a router table?

    ...add to this the fact that the spindle is mounted solidly in cast iron greatly reducing the chance of the cutter moving from its rotation.( how are the router motors in tables mounted?)
    You've lost me completely there. Show of hands: has anybody here ever even heard of someone being injured by a router coming loose from the table?

  6. #6
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    Chris.

    Just about any tool has the potential to cause serious injury.
    If a shaper is safer than a router table, I would hazard that statistical average plays a part.
    Everyone has a router, and we become complacent with them, due to their relative size. A shaper table, on the other hand is big. The bits are big, the machine is big. As previously stated, most folks will have the natural instinct to stay away from that cutter head.
    When I think "Shaper" , I think "Power Feeder". I don't think that on a router table.
    Ironically, knock on wood, my accidents have happened with hand tools. My last mishap cost $400 bucks when a new bandsaw blade uncoiled out of the package on me, sprang back and hit me in the face, teeth first. Cracked, and ruined my glasses, left my left cheek looking like I'd lost an argument with a big ol' alleycat.
    It always pays to go slow, especially around Christmas when everyone is pressed for time.

  7. #7
    My thoughts on shapers vs router tables.

    I always thought a shaper was more dangerous, due to bit size, horse power.
    But. After running both shapers and routers in tables, thinking back, I have never had a shaper scare. I've had them catch the wood and slightly throw it, but never had a disaster with one. I due respect a shaper more than a router table.
    But I've had more mishaps with a router in a table. Catching stock and slinging it across the shop, pulling hide off my fingers. I have never gotten my hands or fingers in a router bit. Just knocked the hide off of them when the wood goes slinging away from me.
    So which is more dangerous? My thoughts lean more towards a router table being more dangerous anymore.
    But I run router tables more than I do my shaper.
    About the only thing I use a shaper for is raised panels, and an ocassional hand rail, with power feeder.


  8. #8
    chris, you decide wich way to do the 3/4" roundover?MVC-898S.JPG

  9. #9
    I had the same reaction to the other thread. I think it comes down to "power feeders are safer than hand-held".

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud
    I agree that "rinky-dink lift-with-one-hand" router tables aren't worth discussing...but they are not what we've been discussing. And that certainly doesn't describe the router tables in use during the two recently-reported incidents.
    (scratches head) I translate that as "shapers are safer because they're more dangerous"...huh?!? I agree that some operations (like making raised panels) are better left to shapers just because of bit size, but when these two tools are used for appropriate operations, the question stands: what makes a shaper safer than a router table?
    lee, the design of a shaper,cast iron top,solid spindle,a fence bolted solidly to the table are my preference. the router tables i have seen in the magazines use a drop-in router base and an aluminum fence held to the wooden top with small bolts and thumb screws. i opt for the more substantial cutter and fence mounting of a shaper.
    You've lost me completely there. Show of hands: has anybody here ever even heard of someone being injured by a router coming loose from the table?
    here again i am only speculating but with a "drop-in" router the likeliyhood of the cutter being able to deviate from its proscribed path is far greater than that of a shaper. i don`t believe i ever infered that the router would come loose from the table but any movement of the spinning cutter from its proscribed path makes loss of controll more likely..... as i said this is only food for thought, do whatever feels right to you..02 tod sorry, the computer has out witted me again, i can`t figure out how to highlite the issues you raised???????

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans
    chris, you decide wich way to do the 3/4" roundover?MVC-898S.JPG
    That is not a problem for me.
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  12. #12
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    Ok now that we are done showing each other our "muscles" (can I include mine too? ) I think the basic point is sometimes we can get very comfortable with a router in a table. Most of the time is is hand fed and no matter what you add there is always some type of close-like involvement with your hands. With a shaper, most have feeders on them so it just about completely takes you away from the cutter. If you own a sliding table shaper like both Tod and I have you clamp your stock down and slide away. Can shaper cutters be massive? yes they sure can but I am not near them when they are turning my feeder is protecting me in more ways than one. A shaper can do anything a router table can but a router table can not do what a shaper can. I own both also but once I had my shaper I choose that over my router table all the time.

  13. #13
    i would like to appoligize for getting folks dander up. my intention was not to provoke arguement for the sake of arguement. we all have our own ways of doing things and each of us believe we are doing right by ourselves. right now each and every one of us is looking at that next cutter set-up in a new light........... good! tod

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans
    here again i am only speculating but with a "drop-in" router the likeliyhood of the cutter being able to deviate from its proscribed path is far greater than that of a shaper. i don`t believe i ever infered that the router would come loose from the table but any movement of the spinning cutter from its proscribed path makes loss of controll more likely...
    And that's where you lost me: the "movement from its proscribed path" translates (to me at least) as "the router moved". Coming loose from the table is the only way I can see that happening on a quality router table.
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans
    sorry, the computer has out witted me again, i can`t figure out how to highlite the issues you raised???????
    See the little "text balloon" icon just to the left of the "#" icon? That wraps any selected text in quote markers.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B. Cresti
    Ok now that we are done showing each other our "muscles" (can I include mine too? ) I think the basic point is sometimes we can get very comfortable with a router in a table. Most of the time is is hand fed and no matter what you add there is always some type of close-like involvement with your hands. With a shaper, most have feeders on them so it just about completely takes you away from the cutter. If you own a sliding table shaper like both Tod and I have you clamp your stock down and slide away. Can shaper cutters be massive? yes they sure can but I am not near them when they are turning my feeder is protecting me in more ways than one. A shaper can do anything a router table can but a router table can not do what a shaper can.
    Dumb question: how does the feeder on a shaper handle templates?

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